How much emphases should empire theme have?(e.g TR=Rapidfire,NC=Power,VS=tech)

[Death2All]

Originally Posted by Goku

What issues did you have with the Prowler? The tank is good, but I would never say that tank out did me in tank vs tank with my Vanguard as long as my gunner was experienced. If you are talking about a Prowler shredding apart a Mag in close range then oh well. The Mag has lower armor, but that makes up with it for range and hovering ability. Any good Mag crew I have seen keeps distance from my Van, so I do not get too close.

I think too many people get butt hurt over the JH. I cannot tell you how many times I have died in a long hallway against MCGs or getting spammed to death by Lashers. Each weapon has its own unique abilities while be roughly the same. If you cannot stand the wall humpers just nade the corner if you think someone is there. JH if it is in PS2 will not nearly be as effective now due to not having third person anyway. Takes out the whole camping element that made it godly to some people. Besides a weapon is only as good the user wielding it.

It was more of an issue with all of TR's empire specific vehicles and how they required many people to be effective in contrast of TR and VS which didn't require that many.

Overall the tank was functionable and worked fine without a gunner but people used it as a scapegoat for it being the worst overall MBT. I think that was due partly the it's large design that made it a huge target, that also made it harder to manuever through tight places.

The only thing it really had going for it was an higher ROF than any other tank and two seperate gunner spots, although as I've said before this caused more problems than it did to balance the tank out. It's armor wasn't an advantage either since I believe the Vanguard had the most MBT armor in the game, although I could be mistaken. And even if it did it still had it's poor design and maneuverability.

Overall the problems with then Prowler stemmed more from the overall design of the vehicle rather than the number of spots that needed to be filled, in my opinion. Although in contrast the Raider handled just like any other deliverer variant with the added niche of needing a lot of gunners, but I don't feel like getting into that.


As for the Jackhammer.Most of the backlash that the Jackhammer gets is from the majority of combat in PS taking place in towers and tight corridors where the Jackhammer was most effective. In PS2 it seems like most combat will be out in the open fighting over contestable territory instead of some random ToD with wall humping NC all over it.

[Goku]

That is agreeable, I thought you had an issue with the tank being OP. Really the devs should of made the prowler chain gun swappable between a single gunner or allow two gunners if the driver wanted the extra damage. On top of that the tank should of had the most armor while the VG had the middle amount of armor. Low profile, quick, and most armor doesn't make any sense compared to what the Prowler has going for it.

The JH does get hate there indeed, but there is a counter. I would just plasma nade the JH users till they left their camping spot. I think some people take the whole honor thing regarding nades and other instances in the game a bit far. Not everyone is going to follow the honor code, so will they get out done they bitch about it.

[Bags]

I liked the whole "TR = more bullets" thing but I didn't like how we needed more gunners.

JH shouldn't be problematic in PS2 without third person camping, bigger everything, and outdoor objectives.

[Rbstr]

I agree on the gunners issue to a certain extent.

It should ever bee the extreme deliverer-variant style, but the Prowler could be ok with better balancing (like both weapons systems should be effective in their own right, but against different targets, or do quite a lot more DPS than an equivalent single system when focused on a single target

[opticalshadow]

liek said above, the problem witht he prowler and tr vehics in gen, is it required more manpower, for little return.if i have a three person tank it should be outright more powerful in some manner then the two man. sure it gave me a chain gun, but it was of minor use.

i think the themes shoudl be there and they shoudl be there in force, and i think the max suit designs they released illistrait what i mean.

the tr clearly have the most stable form of resource, being the branch of the orginal empire they have quality built designs, their weapons were not built for effiency they were built for sheer overwhelment. that should stay, the idea more is better worked.

the nc suit looks much rougher, almost liek a prototype. its show a newer force rtying to adapt the best they can with very limited resources. the ever scrap of metal is as importent as gold metality works. slow fireing, highly accurate weapons should be the hallmark of a rebel group whos resources are not so great.

the vs suit looks stright futuristic battle bot gundam thing. it screams that they are advanced, the mentality that though sheer power they will preveil, because we have the most technalogicaly advanced weaponary we cannot lose. their versitility gave them the idea. we dont need to use two types of ammo, when we can make the one do the same.

i think the tr shopuld keep high RoF, but give them it in bulk, not just chain guns. give their launches multi fire rockets, make their tech all out offencive.

the nc should keep the slower fire high dmg weapon, but dont corn hole them with shot guns. heavy rifles of high caliber would work too. they should favor defence more then offence, needing to protect their valuable resources. slower vehicles, but more armored.

the vanu should be like a swarm. the energy weapons shoudl either be beam like, slow rof but high return on dmg and accuracy. or very quick but light dmg. the best might be liek what they did with the lasher. a unique type of fire. now im not saying make more lashers. but giving them guns with way of deliving their dmg other then direct lien would be fun. their vehicles would be the epitome of adabtability, liek their hover craft, terrian should restrict them the least, doign so sacrifices both weapon arrays and armor, but their tanks should be able to reach places faster or that others cant, giving them the benifit of positioning, combined with a uniqe weapon system their key feature wont be ammo switching, but attacking from postions other have a hard time defeneding against, or a hard time attacking.

[Senyu]

Its kinda hard for the VS, its like the middle child.

TR are the fast shooters with high RoF. And the NC are slow but powerful shots.

But the VS is advance technology with versatility......there is no specific thing for that. Tho advance tech more versatile to me sounds like it would be the most powerful but can't for obv balance reasons. So what do you do in gameplay because looks only go so far. The VS really need a defined style of play. Personally I think the devs have this probably figured out but if they need ideas I suggest looking at the Tau from Warhammer40k universe. Read the codex book for the models, there are plenty of tech and themes that could fit the Vanu. Low Armor, Long Fire range, High mobility, Shields, Portabale tech. Its good stuff

[opticalshadow]

Originally Posted by Senyu

Its kinda hard for the VS, its like the middle child.

TR are the fast shooters with high RoF. And the NC are slow but powerful shots.

But the VS is advance technology with versatility......there is no specific thing for that. Tho advance tech more versatile to me sounds like it would be the most powerful but can't for obv balance reasons. So what do you do in gameplay because looks only go so far. The VS really need a defined style of play. Personally I think the devs have this probably figured out but if they need ideas I suggest looking at the Tau from Warhammer40k universe. Read the codex book for the models, there are plenty of tech and themes that could fit the Vanu. Low Armor, Long Fire range, High mobility, Shields, Portabale tech. Its good stuff

well one way they can balence them is by instead of using RoF use Range. tr are generally better med range. NS are generally better close range, so give the vanu the benifit at long range. you could have their guns gain dmg as they travel, the farther they go the harder they hit, they can also gains speed with this to.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by opticalshadow

well one way they can balence them is by instead of using RoF use Range. tr are generally better med range. NS are generally better close range, so give the vanu the benifit at long range. you could have their guns gain dmg as they travel, the farther they go the harder they hit, they can also gains speed with this to.

That makes me think, they could also separate empires by speed.

NC go fast (fast and hard).
TR are slow but durable (slow and steady)
VS are the most mobile (...vanu)

[exLupo]

VS felt like the "neat idea" dump. Take all of the cool "what ifs" that don't fit in TR/NC and stick them on the purple guys.

[Senyu]

Originally Posted by opticalshadow

well one way they can balence them is by instead of using RoF use Range. tr are generally better med range. NS are generally better close range, so give the vanu the benifit at long range. you could have their guns gain dmg as they travel, the farther they go the harder they hit, they can also gains speed with this to.

I like that. And again its a trait of the Tau. Sry I keep mentioning but to me their very similair.

A fun vehicle weapon besides lancer could be the speeding up as you mention. For first 50m it moves little slow then jumps in speed 3 times that for rest of duration. It would take skill to aim because whatever your shooting must be in its trajectory just before it speeds up. Leading the target will take some practice

[Vancha]

^
I think it's only natural to use 40k as a reference occasionally. PS and 40k aren't entirely dissimilar in their troop/vehicle dynamics, so it'd be foolish not to look there for some inspiration. I keep returning to Tau as well though (in ideas rather than posts), so evidently they have something to offer.

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by Senyu

Its kinda hard for the VS, its like the middle child.

TR are the fast shooters with high RoF. And the NC are slow but powerful shots.

But the VS is advance technology with versatility......there is no specific thing for that. Tho advance tech more versatile to me sounds like it would be the most powerful but can't for obv balance reasons. So what do you do in gameplay because looks only go so far. The VS really need a defined style of play. Personally I think the devs have this probably figured out but if they need ideas I suggest looking at the Tau from Warhammer40k universe. Read the codex book for the models, there are plenty of tech and themes that could fit the Vanu. Low Armor, Long Fire range, High mobility, Shields, Portabale tech. Its good stuff

I don't personally think it's too fancy of an idea to pigeonhole one faction into a defensive style of play, when the game is equally much about attacking and defending.

[Senyu]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

I don't personally think it's too fancy of an idea to pigeonhole one faction into a defensive style of play, when the game is equally much about attacking and defending.

I agree, the VS will need offensive things as well. Though it shouldnt purely be based on that, some aspects of the range could be the theme. Of course they will have closer ranged weapons but some of their defining and unique ones should lean towards the long range style

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by Bags

I liked the whole "TR = more bullets" thing but I didn't like how we needed more gunners.

That was fine until you realised our ammo boxes were the same size as everyone elses......

[Senyu]

Originally Posted by Redshift

That was fine until you realised our ammo boxes were the same size as everyone elses......

Just make TR ammo boxes carry more?