People still bitching about Jackhammer!

[Cease]

I'm probably the only one that thinks this, but after having used the MCG during my time in TR, and having used the JH during my time in NC, and now using the Lasher in VS... I feel out of all the HA weapons, the JH is the least forgiving of inaccuracy.

I'll admit its a brutal weapon when up close and personal, but to say it requires no skill to aim is a little much IMO. It requires roughly same amout of skill to aim as a Sweeper, and last time I checked the Sweeper has never been accused of being a skill-less weapon.

As far as the Agile or RF with JH, I often use both.

In regards to the counter for the Surging JH guy... Well with my Vanu toon, I'm experimenting with jammer grenades and killing thier surge. It's showing impressive results, but my hand grenade tossing skills are too awful to make a solid determination. I'm going to keep working on it however.

[Queensidecastle]

The only problem with the Jackhammer is the CoF at range. It should be like an AMP pistol.

And as far as the cycler, IT is the best kept secret. If you look on this thread it is all NC postings. Of course they arent going to know that the Gauss is inferior and why would the TR readly admit this fact? Who wants a whole bunch of new threads on nerf the cycler!!1. Ill give you one advantage the Gauss has over the cycler: It is much better at killing deployables at range. For killing infantry at range, give me a cycler any day. Unless you get like 100 frames per second all the time, you need the accuracy of the Cycler

[Happy lil Elf]

Oxo, you're full of shit. If you emptied an entire clip of ammo from a cycler into someone running at you and hit with most of your shots, they'd be dead. Yay for hyperbole over facts though. Didn't we already have this argument about the Jackhammer? You know, the one you lost?

[Vick]

Originally posted by noxious
Have you actually used these two weapons? Their low damage output disallows "spray and pay" tactics. Your bullets must hit or you'll loose to weapons which have higher damage outputs(lasher/JH for MCG and All HA/Gauss for cycler).

I have used them both alot, and any newbie can stick it in your face and hold the mouse button while hitting A and D. I can not do that with a guass. I have to crouch, standing still, and fire in bursts to hit anything. Even targets inside.

[Queensidecastle]

If you remember correctly our original argument revolved around the fact that at the time the JH was too powerfull. The devs certainly agreed and the other HAs were adjusted to provide the other empires some compensation. During your blind lunitic ranting and personal attacks you just simply could not and would not accept this fact and this is what was so comical. I guess if getting what I wanted (balance of HA) is losing, then I need to be on the "loseing" side more often rofl.

After the adjustments were made everyone was then on a much more even playing field and gibs were enjoyed by all (after the lasher nerf of course). The game continues to recieve positive balance tweaks and I think for the most part the Devs are doing a great job. It also seems that the final outstanding balance issues are going to be adressed (Magrider, Striker, AA in general, MAXs..etc)

My anectdote is as truthfull as I can express it. It doesnt really matter to me if you believe it or not because I am not on a mission to get the JH nerfed especially since I quite like my NC characters. I do like to point out inaccuracies when I see them and just because I may play a character with overbalanced weapons, I will just flat admit it as opposed to turing into a religous zelot that cannot see reason. I love this game and I want it to be ballanced, that is the only thing I care about. I have no conflict of interest because I like all 3 empires a great deal and want it to be fun to play each and every one of them

[SandTrout]

The fact remains, queen, that with each bullet doing roughly 12 damage a shot to an agile(haven't done expiriments with cycler, but punnisher does 12 , pulsar does 13, and gauss does 14), it is littaraly impossible for the agile to survive half of the bullets if you hit him that often without repairing.

And by the way, just because you can't use the Gauss due to shitty framerate doesn't mean the cycler is better. I do much better with the gauss than the cycler. Its a matter of knowing when to let the CoF shrink.

[Happy lil Elf]

If you remember correctly our original argument revolved around the fact that at the time the JH was too powerfull. The devs certainly agreed and the other HAs were adjusted to provide the other empires some compensation. During your blind lunitic ranting and personal attacks you just simply could not and would not accept this fact and this is what was so comical. I guess if getting what I wanted (balance of HA) is losing, then I need to be on the "loseing" side more often rofl.

You've got to be kidding me. Do you want me to link the thread for you? You were arguing that the Jackhammer was way too overpowered and that the Devs boosted the other HA simply to compesate for that. I was arguing theat the Lasher and MCG were not powerful enough to be truly considered HA weapons and needed the increase. Granted it's a fine point to argue, almost more about semantics than anything else.

Oddly enough that argument initially began over the same thing. You exagerrated something, and I called you on it. Remember the "I got sniped by a Jackhammer from 100m away" statement? It's the same thing here. Your anectdote is either an exaggeration or an outright lie.....well or you just plain suck but I honestly can't believe that judging by your experience and knowledge of the game. That leaves us with a lie or an exaggeration and really I have a feeling it's not a lie either since you don't seem like th etype. Blowing something out of proportion to try and prove a point is something that bothers me though and thus I will call people on it.

That was a fun little flame war we had going though

After the adjustments were made everyone was then on a much more even playing field and gibs were enjoyed by all (after the lasher nerf of course). The game continues to recieve positive balance tweaks and I think for the most part the Devs are doing a great job. It also seems that the final outstanding balance issues are going to be adressed (Magrider, Striker, AA in general, MAXs..etc)

Well, at least we can agree on something for once

[Queensidecastle]

Actually what I was talking about was 100 feet which is like what 30 meters? I didnt even bother to correct that mistake after all the trolls rolled in because giving ammo to trolls is a no-no and it wasnt even the focus of the argument. I was totally correct about that 30 meters if you care to ever pay attention to it with an open mind, the Jackhammer does plenty of damage at 30 meters considering these 2 factors:

A) How completely devistating it is up close combined with
B) The total lack of CoF bloom while running and/or surging

Try surging around with an MCG or a Lasher and then lets talk. None of it matters now, but that thread was full of religeous zealots that absolutly would not acknowledge that there was serious balance problem with the jackhammer and that was what was really pissing me off. It is one thing to argue the properties of various weapons, but the old ballance of HA was ridiculous and it was clear to everyone why. Just for arguments sake if you want to run a test with me on this I will show you what I am talking about since it seems we both have emerald chars

[SandTrout]

Forgive me if not accepting what you say as true absoutely and without doubt makes me a religeous Zealot. You calling us religous Zealots isn't helping your case for 2 reasons:
1)Religeon was not brought up as a topic on this thread
2)Your anticdote is either the "creative" truth or a lie, simply because of statistics on damage.

The CoF does increase while running, just as much as any other gun as far as I can tell, but recoil has a practicly nil effect on shotguns due to low refire rate. This makes a shotgun in general good for mobile soldiers in this game.

However, CoF isn't the only accuracy variable on the jackhammer either. You also must take into accout the spread of the pellets, which is larger than the sweeper's.

You have not supported your possition with either numbers or correct information. As far as I can tell, the HA weapons are about as ballanced as they are going to get(or can possibly be).

[Queensidecastle]

I wasnt talking about you Sandtrout. Dont you feel like a complete ass now?

[Happy lil Elf]

Might be able to do a test. Don't know if I'll get a chanec to get on tonight though. I'll let you know when I find out (may end up having to go out for drinks instead of being able to vegetate in front of the computer, and yes I'd rather vegetate ).

[Otis]

Originally posted by Biohazzard56
This has been an issue since launch, as long as you stay far away JH isnt a problem unless your inside which it can still be done. Just cause people are good with JH and you suck with every other gun doesnt mean we should nerf everything. I didnt think the Lasher should be nerfed it would give the VS incentive.

This is all I read before I posted, first of all I don't mean to be mean, and I don't mean to bitch. But whats fair about the Jackhammer? Indoors it reigns supreme. It's kinda hard to stay away from it indoors, other people good with the JH and all others suck? Once again I don't mean to be mean, wait yes I do. What the fuck is wrong with you? Agil, 2 shots, Re Exo, 3 shots. I hardly ever take down a JH user one on one. If I do, I suprise him and get the first shot. It's rediculous how fast it is too. I'm going to stop now, I'm sorry if I insulted anyone.

[SandTrout]

2 shots with a sweeper on agile and 3 on Reinforced. What is the MCG other than a cycler with a higher RoF?

[Otis]

Originally posted by SandTrout
2 shots with a sweeper on agile and 3 on Reinforced. What is the MCG other than a cycler with a higher RoF?

and a larger COF

[SandTrout]

And less recoil. the Jackhammer has a larger spread too, you know.