Theory: Bullet drop - Page 3

CutterJohn · 2011-08-09, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by cashfoyogash

bullets dont just go out the barrel then start going down... it actually dips down as soon as it leaves the barrel then it starts to climb up and then falls down.... no bs

The bullet has a downward acceleration of 9.8m/s the moment it leaves the barrel. If it goes up first its because the barrel is pointing up. Bullets don't have any magical lift. A bullet fired from a barrel parallel to the ground will instantly begin falling the very instant it leaves the barrel.

cashfoyogash · 2011-08-09, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

The bullet has a downward acceleration of 9.8m/s the moment it leaves the barrel. If it goes up first its because the barrel is pointing up. Bullets don't have any magical lift. A bullet fired from a barrel parallel to the ground will instantly begin falling the very instant it leaves the barrel.

Im telling you there is a small dip when it first leaves the barrel.... how could the us army be wrong? it is who taught me how to shoot and it has a very slight dip when it first leaves the barrel to which it then elevates up to the line of sight to whatever range your zeroed in at then it starts to fall. It is why when we aimed at the closest target we aimed in the dirt.

NewSith · 2011-08-09, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by cashfoyogash

Im telling you there is a small dip when it first leaves the barrel.... how could the us army be wrong? it is who taught me how to shoot and it has a very slight dip when it first leaves the barrel to which it then elevates up to the line of sight to whatever range your zeroed in at then it starts to fall. It is why when we aimed at the closest target we aimed in the dirt.

What John says is true. What you're saying is not what he says and IS also true. Depending on weapon's design or gunner's will, sights can be altered to either be parallel to a weapon or adapted to firing distance. The second means you're not pointing your gun the direction you're aiming at. This + recoil creates this magic effect.

EDIT: It doesn't come to mind unless you have free time to think about it.

Sirisian · 2011-08-09, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by cashfoyogash

bullets dont just go out the barrel then start going down... it actually dips down as soon as it leaves the barrel then it starts to climb up and then falls down.... no bs

You've been playing too much airsoft man. A hop-up mechanism doesn't exist for a real gun...

SKYeXile · 2011-08-09, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

People from other countries oft give those in the US shit for not knowing other languages. Learn to use more than one measuring system. The simple conversions are easy, and you can derive the rest.

im not giving you shit because i cant convert imperial to metric...which it obvious i can..since I dont live in the US... I'm simply giving you shit for using an inferior system of measurment.

cashfoyogash · 2011-08-09, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

You've been playing too much airsoft man. A hop-up mechanism doesn't exist for a real gun...

No, I trained with a M16A4 and also the M4 variant. I also shot for my worst ever 35 out of 40 and my best was 38 out of 40 from 50 meters out to 300 meters. I do have a bit of understanding in how a rifle works and also what the path of a bullet is. Im telling you it dips as soon as it leaves the barrel then it elevates to its peak and then descends again. This is also because of rifling in the barrel it has nothing to do with anything else. Bullets do not come out the barrel in a straight line slowly falling.... Now it is a very small dip and you wouldnt really notice it even firing at a target that is a foot in front of you.

We almost always had our rifles zeroed in for 175 meters for qualifying. The area you aimed for is called center mass which is basically the upper part of your sternum. So at a 175 meters your red dot for a CCO (close combat optic) is right on the chest or center mass area. When firing at the 300 meter target the dot would be a little above the head so the bullet will strike center mass. At the 50 meter target you would put your red dot right on the bottom of the silhouette. I wasnt saying the bullet climbs above the barrel, I said it arcs back up to whatever your zeroed in at.

Bags · 2011-08-09, 11:42 PM

Going to weigh in here and say I live in the USA and I really wish we used the metric system because ours sucks.

Sirisian · 2011-08-10, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by cashfoyogash

Im telling you it dips as soon as it leaves the barrel then it elevates to its peak and then descends again.

And this isn't caused by any upward recoil of the rifle that would give the impression of the bullet dropping then coming back up as you quickly adjusted? From a physics standpoint there's nothing to explain such action and I can't find anything online to support that idea.

cashfoyogash · 2011-08-10, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

And this isn't caused by any upward recoil of the rifle that would give the impression of the bullet dropping then coming back up as you quickly adjusted?

Umm no because you dont actually see the bullet anyways? What causes the bullet to go in this path is the rifling that is in a barrel.... You do know that rifling in a barrel is what makes a rifle able to be accurate right? A smoothbore musket back in the civil war days had no accuracy at all. Shortly after the start of the war rifling came into barrels and accuracy increased tremendously. See the smoothbore a round would just circle around in there any which way and come out any which way. With the introduction of rifling the round now had a path which it was sent out in. This is why when the bullet leaves the barrel it slightly dips and arcs up then down basically. All this is not noticeable to the human eye while firing....

Rbstr · 2011-08-10, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by NapalmEnima

Err. You and physics don't get along, do you?

When siting in a scope, you site it in for a particular range. 50 yards, 100 yards, 500 yards, whatever. You aim the scope for where the bullet will hit at that distance.

You don't like paying attention to the context of posts do you?
You should note I made no claims about realistic bullet drop, simply that they could add too much. That makes aiming a chore beyond usual and kind of silly from a game play standpoint.
I've taught physics labs for several years and I'm a phd engineering student. But that doesn't mean I give a shit about physics in a game acting exactly like it does in real life.

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

Coriolis force isn't a "force" at all. Its just the world turning under the object in question.

That all depends on your frame of reference.

And yeah, the imperial measurement system sucks. It gets even worse than simple conversion when you have to deal with temperature or mass/force (pound mass, pound force, fuck you). Or when you work in a lab and half the shit is German or Japanese and the other half is American (and some of that is made by scientists that use metric and some is made by engineers so it's imperial)so everything is a hodge-podged quagmire of metric and imperial nut and bolt sizes.
I will admit it's fairly good for eyeballing things, though. A foot is...your foot-ish. A yard is about a stride.
But those powers of ten and no-nonsence conversions are so nice.

Rbstr · 2011-08-10, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by cashfoyogash

Umm no because you dont actually see the bullet anyways? What causes the bullet to go in this path is the rifling that is in a barrel.... You do know that rifling in a barrel is what makes a rifle able to be accurate right? A smoothbore musket back in the civil war days had no accuracy at all. Shortly after the start of the war rifling came into barrels and accuracy increased tremendously. See the smoothbore a round would just circle around in there any which way and come out any which way. With the introduction of rifling the round now had a path which it was sent out in. This is why when the bullet leaves the barrel it slightly dips and arcs up then down basically. All this is not noticeable to the human eye while firing....

This is not why or how rifling works (though you're partly right about smoothbore guns, those can also impart spin at odd angles that cause bullets to deflect like a baseball pitch[though that has lots to do with the laminar/turbulent transition] or paintball). Rifling imparts angular momentum which stabilizes a bullet like a gyroscope.

cashfoyogash · 2011-08-10, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Rbstr

This is not why or how rifling works (though you're partly right about smoothbore guns, those can also impart spin at odd angles that cause bullets to deflect like a baseball pitch or paintball). Rifling imparts angular momentum which stabilizes a bullet like a gyroscope.

I could of swore thats what I was saying? Regardless rifling is why the bullet dips when it leaves the barrel.

Sirisian · 2011-08-10, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by cashfoyogash

I could of swore thats what I was saying? Regardless rifling is why the bullet dips when it leaves the barrel.

That doesn't make sense. Rifling stabilizes the bullets straight flight. There is no force that would cause the bullet to go down then come back up. I've taken a few physics courses and know a bit about guns. The rotation is only for stability. It doesn't spin fast enough to actually impart any force like a hop-up would. Thus there's no force acting on the bullet when it leaves the gun that would cause it to dip down or raise up against gravity. It's just not possible.

Captain1nsaneo · 2011-08-10, 04:03 AM

And now for something completely different.

Originally Posted by Sovereign

Thus it can only come into play if it were in fact calculating the trajectories of very long-range shots like artillery if such artillery will even exist in the game that would mirror that of real life parallels such as the Paris gun. So in order to even layout a proper trajectory the person using the long range gun that will be effected will have to employ imprinting this into their mind:

Originally Posted by Sovereign

Not sure they will have such in depth weaponry that could potentially be fired at bases in other neighboring continents.

Originally Posted by Sovereign

artillery

Originally Posted by Sovereign

fired at bases in other neighboring continents

DO. WANT.
I don't care how much math I have to do and how slow it's rate of fire is. Heck it could even be an upgrade for a player owned base that requires a cert to use. DO. NOT CARE. I want to fire this bad boy. Minimum range, rate of fire, and complexity of aiming could be easily combined to make an awesome weapon. Replace that radar disk with an artillery emplacement. Heck you could make it so it had to be manually reloaded after each shot. Have a round the size of an FDU you have to put into a trunk. Later there could be different round types. Like giant flares to aid in night fights or EMP charges to clear CE.

Now slightly back on topic.
Bullet drop is fun, makes those long range shots more satisfying when pulled off correctly.

Peacemaker · 2011-08-10, 04:31 AM

Rob, I assume what you ment on my comment about coriolis force was in refrence to weather. Yea I get that.

And to the other guy who the hell told you that bullets go down then up after leaving a rifled barrel. WTF are you talking about? Bullets follow newtons laws. Bullets don't have lift, once leaving the barrel they fall. The only way they can go up is an updraft or a deflection via impact.