News: Daybreak Games Hit With Layoffs, Matt Higby resigns

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Hamma

The game was dead before it even came out for PS1 vet's who couldn't see past the original game.

Hamma I'm prone to take a huge issue with this statement if it is meant as a rather wide generalisation rather than applicable to specific individual PS1 veterans.


The fast majority of PS1 veterans were accepting of the principle of change, they simply didn't agree with the changes made and failed to see the logic behind the changes made and elements that were chosen to be changed.

That's something completely different.



Personally I blame the death of PS2 on being far too much like an infinite threeway PS1 cave fight. It should have been an indication to the devs that virtually nobody in PS1 liked cave fights, while "field combat", "campaigning", "defensive farms", "resecure challenges", "(gen/drain) holds" and "massive sieges" were what most players kept playing PS1 for.

The PS2 devs didn't first identify what MMO gameplay was most coveted and what was least liked. If they did, they didn't try to define what made these types of gameplay possible and how other design changes or decisions (like introducing jetpacks) would be interfering with it.

PS2 simply lacked the structure and design choices that make most of these possible, instead being more about zerg to point and spawncamping gameplay than anything else.


PS1 vets gave PS2 more than a chance to impress them. Instead they quickly recognised PS2 copied games designed around short deathmatch and ticket system matches. PS2 devs failed to recognise how an open, continuous world differed from those games in terms of logistics and gameplay scenarios and made decisions that could not be reconciled with it. You cannot blame PS1 vets for being able to make that distinction and not being willing to accept inferior gameplay that could be avoided.





Hamma, just remember that "teleporter firing squads" were designed by developers out of pure inexperience, ignorance and bad insight.


No PS1 veteran nor new player is going to accept such design. And yes, the PS1 player will point out how PS1 did not have that. That isn't tunnelvision. That is experience.

[p0intman]

Originally Posted by Hamma

Matt Higby leaving SOE only makes p0intman right in p0intman's world.

If you had predicted the exact day and set of events down to a T then I'd be impressed. But that did not happen.. also the game isn't dead for everyone - people are still playing it. Is it as successful as it could be? Definitely not.

The game was dead before it even came out for PS1 vet's who couldn't see past the original game.

I said, during pre-alpha and beta:

"This design wont work and will hurt the game. It isn't sustainable."

... look at exactly where we are now.

I think that qualifies as, 'I told you so' territory. If it were sustainable, PS/SOE/DB wouldn't be in the position its currently in, would it?

P.S.: the absolutely beautiful thing about the truth is that its true completely regardless of weather or not you like it, believe it or want to admit it. You, personally, along with a few others discounted what I and others said, and continue to do so, for whatever fanboyish reasons. I, on the other hand, stick to facts and experience. Its really just feels vs reals. If Battlefield of duty-side were entertaining, the game wouldn't be in the state its in, with growing numbers of people seeing how bland it is.

[Assist]

Sad to see Higby go. Even if he did crush my OP Magrider. #neverforget.

Can't say I'm too surprised the game is falling apart(the dev team at least). The game really hasn't progressed much since release. They had been taking one step forward and two steps back for too long.

[Calista]

I think CN is changing the platform priorities to basically accelerate console focus but not giving up on PC. Kinda freezing the PC side except for bug fixes, tuning etc and pushing the active development to the console side. For the longest time it was PC first and now that is changing. If that's the case I don't blame them at all. PS2 on PC growth has been stagnant if not declining for quite some time and the PS4 version was promised to be a "launch" title and all this time later it's still not ready. There is just simply more money to be made from the consoles at this time and CN "adjusted" priorities to pursue that revenue. I don't think the game is "dead" by a long shot.

[Hamma]

I didn't mean all vets, btw.

But it only takes a vocal few to turn off devs from feedback about the game.

Ironically they went to Reddit which was probably even worse.

[p0intman]

Originally Posted by Hamma

I didn't mean all vets, btw.

But it only takes a vocal few to turn off devs from feedback about the game.

Ironically they went to Reddit which was probably even worse.

they went to reddit because its easier to crowdsource feedback there, and you get a bigger mix of opinions that inherently includes outsiders as well as current players. its actually just a simply better platform. instead of laughing and brushing others off, perhaps you should take a careful look at what went wrong, and why it went wrong, and what role in that you had in bringing it about.

you can blame others all you like, but that doesn't do jack shit.

But hey, who am I? I'm just a dude who said 'this shit wont work' while fanboys laughed the advice off.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Hamma

I didn't mean all vets, btw.

Nah, I know. It's just that I personally been tarred with that brush a lot and it's been used to dismiss so many good ideas and concepts. Seen an outfitmate being ridiculed for bringing up an idea that was in PS1.

He joined the franchise in PS2 in 2012 during Beta. Think he mainly played RTS games, CoD and BF before that next to some RPGs. He simply was interested in the concept and wanted to know the differences in gameplay, so he went into PS1, was impressed by some of the creativity and complex combinations of systems that hadn't been considered in other games (obviously he was NOT impressed by the graphics).

One of the things he really liked was the unique character skills and the teamwork that was obligatory in vehicles. He wasn't too impressed with the PS1 wall design (no roofs), but pointed out how they were at least effective at the lack of jetpacks and thus defendable due to the low amount of chokepoints and good vision. But he mostly liked the bunker base a lot (one of his main pet peeves was, well is, spawncamping prevention), though (like the rest of us) he could see how it'd be a meatgrinder if the amount of players was raised. Which we agreed was mostly a sense of scaling the tunnels appropriately and adding just a few more, larger entrances to the entire complex.

But it only takes a vocal few to turn off devs from feedback about the game.

Ironically they went to Reddit which was probably even worse.

Well, we aren't the only ones with an opinion. I think they just went with the biggest crowd. :/ The feedback from all the (bickering) sources got a bit overkill on some of the devs I think. Had a couple of PM contacts though that seemed to be productive.

[Hamma]

pointman I find it laughable you think I had any role at all in what happened with PlanetSide 2. I made no decisions on game development and zero decisions on promotion and marketing of the game. I'm willing to put the past behind us if you stop attacking me, I really don't feel like there is any need for that. I watched you make a few constructive posts in the other thread.. no need to come out and attack my thoughts. My blame is on SOE, not on any one community or forum.

You are right in your own mind about the reasons. It doesn't make it the truth.

I believe the game wasn't as successful as it could have been (note: it's not failed nor did it) is due to marketing (again like we saw in PlanetSide 1 last time) and failed focus of the development team and leadership. Not because the AMS doesn't work in a specific way or some random game design decision. The reasons are much more deep seeded and we see the company do these things with just about EVERY game they release. They continue to do the wrong things, invest in the wrong things, and get involved in the wrong deals. Add a bit of bad game design on top of that and it's doomed.

I can tell you one thing, I've already made a decision not to roll with support of another PS game (if there is one) or any other fan site for SOE/DBG. So I'd say that pulls me out of the "fanboy" category. I will keep this site running and occasionally reporting the news when it's big but my work on helping to promote the game are pretty much over.

So I think we are all on the same page - but we are on the same page for different reasons. It's all a matter of perspective, I was never about the nuts and bolts of game design I was always more focused on community and helping to build it and promote it.

I did this the second time around for the love of the community and the memories PlanetSide 1 created for me. The friends I have made and the relationships that will outlast any game.

[Calista]

Originally Posted by Hamma

I can tell you one thing, I've already made a decision not to roll with support of another PS game (if there is one) or any other fan site for SOE/DBG. So I'd say that pulls me out of the "fanboy" category. I will keep this site running and occasionally reporting the news when it's big but my work on helping to promote the game are pretty much over.

Wow Hamma that is saying A LOT. Maybe they will do something profound and you/we will change our minds (doubt it but for all our sake I hope so).

[p0intman]

Originally Posted by Hamma

pointman I find it laughable you think I had any role at all in what happened with PlanetSide 2. I made no decisions on game development and zero decisions on promotion and marketing of the game. I'm willing to put the past behind us if you stop attacking me, I really don't feel like there is any need for that. I watched you make a few constructive posts in the other thread.. no need to come out and attack my thoughts. My blame is on SOE, not on any one community or forum.

You are right in your own mind about the reasons. It doesn't make it the truth.

I believe the game wasn't as successful as it could have been (note: it's not failed nor did it) is due to marketing (again like we saw in PlanetSide 1 last time) and failed focus of the development team and leadership. Not because the AMS doesn't work in a specific way or some random game design decision. The reasons are much more deep seeded and we see the company do these things with just about EVERY game they release. They continue to do the wrong things, invest in the wrong things, and get involved in the wrong deals. Add a bit of bad game design on top of that and it's doomed.

I can tell you one thing, I've already made a decision not to roll with support of another PS game (if there is one) or any other fan site for SOE/DBG. So I'd say that pulls me out of the "fanboy" category. I will keep this site running and occasionally reporting the news when it's big but my work on helping to promote the game are pretty much over.

So I think we are all on the same page - but we are on the same page for different reasons. It's all a matter of perspective, I was never about the nuts and bolts of game design I was always more focused on community and helping to build it and promote it.

I did this the second time around for the love of the community and the memories PlanetSide 1 created for me. The friends I have made and the relationships that will outlast any game.

Context is, why your website is dead. Not the game. The game's problems i mostly blame on Smedley personally.

[Hamma]

I doubt it - I never say never but well.. after what I've seen the past couple years I just don't get it.

Also I personally doubt there will be another PlanetSide unless the IP is sold then maybe I might think about it.

[Hamma]

And let's keep thing constructive here. I'm in the same boat as the rest of you are. We don't have to agree and we don't have to fling personal attacks for no reason.

[Hamma]

We will have to agree to disagree as you continue posting on a "dead" website.

I'll be the first to admit though I thought that PS2 would be different. They had a solid team and lots of attention.

I was wrong.

[p0intman]

Originally Posted by Hamma

We will have to agree to disagree as you continue posting on a "dead" website.

I'll be the first to admit though I thought that PS2 would be different. They had a solid team and lots of attention.

I was wrong.

the only reason i even bother to store my login info for this site is because occasionally i like to repost shit i said years ago to reddit threads.

oh, and shitposting at you. that too.

[Hamma]

This thread isn't about PSU but I put my heart and soul into this place. An initiative happened at SOE to move to reddit. Look at H1Z1 today they don't even have official forums really. Their participation in this site ended due to a policy decision on their side. Pretty much all of their games now have little Dev participation outside social media networks. I could have offered free candy and/or beer and it wouldn't have changed the outcome of this site.

But I digress this convo has nothing to do with this site. If we want to talk about that I can create another thread... But I really don't have much else to say on it. I've accepted where we are now and I feel like I put in my best effort to make this place awesome.

I'm at peace with it