Tank drivers acting as gunners in PS2

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by Higby

Secondary weapons on tanks are no joke.

It is srsbzns

[Goku]

Originally Posted by Higby

Secondary weapons on tanks are no joke.

Can you elaborate anymore then this?

[Higby]

Originally Posted by Goku

Can you elaborate anymore then this?

One of the biggest unlock lines for mbt's are secondary weapon unlocks. You'll be able to switch out a variety of weapons up there that add a ton to your tank's situational viability. These will rival the power of the main guns depending on the vehicle and situation and will be a lot of fun to use. Imagine putting a mortar cannon on top of your vanguard, now you can sit behind cover and shell an area; or, add an AA Flak cannon for defending against reavers. There will be a lot of variation here and having a good secondary gunner will always be a major benefit.

[PsychoXR-20]

Any plans on making an option to allow the secondary gunner to control the main turret if the driver so chooses? I can see times where maybe you're running around with a good friend in a hectic battle and would find it more effective if you (the driver) could focus solely on driving and avoiding enemies/terrain obstacles, while letting your friend take over the primary gun.

[Logit]

Originally Posted by Higby

One of the biggest unlock lines for mbt's are secondary weapon unlocks. You'll be able to switch out a variety of weapons up there that add a ton to your tank's situational viability. These will rival the power of the main guns depending on the vehicle and situation and will be a lot of fun to use. Imagine putting a mortar cannon on top of your vanguard, now you can sit behind cover and shell an area; or, add an AA Flak cannon for defending against reavers. There will be a lot of variation here and having a good secondary gunner will always be a major benefit.

Do you remember BFR's? Weren't they the death of the first game we all loved so much?

I'm all for change but with the scale of the game it would make sense that tanks require more people, rather than giving less people more power.

BFR's "benefitted" from a second gunner, but it wasn't entirely necessary.

[IceyCold]

Originally Posted by Logit

Do you remember BFR's? Weren't they the death of the first game we all loved so much?

I'm all for change but with the scale of the game it would make sense that tanks require more people, rather than giving less people more power.

BFR's "benefitted" from a second gunner, but it wasn't entirely necessary.

But it was made not neccisary because of the one man BFR. The 2 man ones were much more powerful with 2 people.

Another thing is the driver's guns on a BFR could be switched, here not so much from the sound of it. The driver of the tank has access to a single weapon.

So now a 1 man tank is decent enough for head to head ground conflict against vehicles or infantry in the open; but much MUCH weaker against aircraft and infantry with any kind of cover. That is a fairly big tradeoff if you ask me, forcing yourself into a very singular role just because you were too lazy to find a gunner is a good incentive for teamwork.

I am not too worried about it to be honest, but I want to see how it pans out in beta.

[Goku]

Originally Posted by Higby

One of the biggest unlock lines for mbt's are secondary weapon unlocks. You'll be able to switch out a variety of weapons up there that add a ton to your tank's situational viability. These will rival the power of the main guns depending on the vehicle and situation and will be a lot of fun to use. Imagine putting a mortar cannon on top of your vanguard, now you can sit behind cover and shell an area; or, add an AA Flak cannon for defending against reavers. There will be a lot of variation here and having a good secondary gunner will always be a major benefit.

I see what you are getting at, but I still prefer what the current system is like. Easily the most fun moments I remember from playing PS is driving with a good gunner. Sounds like this is doable with what your team wants to do with PS2, but I still see the the gunners role being to diminished even if there is a good secondary gun. The driver is has the strongest one correct?

Hearing this news I know not bother with tanks now and I preferred the team aspect more, not just having a complementary gunner. If I wanted to solo I would of learned how to use a reaver in PS. At least I will be focusing more on more infantry based ops now. The best part of PS was the huge vehicle fights. I really hope you are not making it like battlefield with how the tanks are and just getting blown up with 2 well placed AV rockets. That will ruin it imo. I am just to stuck on the current driver/gunner system in PS. I just found it balanced out good.

[Espion]

Originally Posted by Higby

You'll be able to switch out a variety of weapons up there that add a ton to your tank's situational viability

So are you going for a BFR-like approach where individual parts of the tank can be destroyed (i.e. destroying the secondary weapon, taking damage to the main weapon so RoF slows, etc)

[Peacemaker]

Originally Posted by Higby

One of the biggest unlock lines for mbt's are secondary weapon unlocks. You'll be able to switch out a variety of weapons up there that add a ton to your tank's situational viability. These will rival the power of the main guns depending on the vehicle and situation and will be a lot of fun to use. Imagine putting a mortar cannon on top of your vanguard, now you can sit behind cover and shell an area; or, add an AA Flak cannon for defending against reavers. There will be a lot of variation here and having a good secondary gunner will always be a major benefit.

Higby,

This statement makes me cringe. There should always be a rock paper scissors effect. MBTs should NOT have any powerful AA. Gunships > MBTs. Its how the world goes round. Wanna make them BETTER at AA? Ok, thats fine, but they shouldn't win in a equal skill 1 v 1. Dedicated AA vehicles are a must. These vehicles should be weak vs infantry and other ground vehicles. Tanks should be weak to Air but pwn infantry. Air is weak to AA vehicles. Infantry can out maneuver armor.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

MBTs should NOT have any powerful AA. Gunships > MBTs. Its how the world goes round. Wanna make them BETTER at AA? Ok, thats fine, but they shouldn't win in a equal skill 1 v 1. Dedicated AA vehicles are a must. These vehicles should be weak vs infantry and other ground vehicles. Tanks should be weak to Air but pwn infantry. Air is weak to AA vehicles. Infantry can out maneuver armor.

Well it would be a 2 person MBT. Nothing is stopping you from pulling two Reavers instead and just launching a barrage of rockets at the MBT. That would probably decimate it. That and I think they want the same level of difficulty for Reavers as there was in PS1. That is a Reaver vs a tank wasn't always an easy kill was it?

[FIREk]

Originally Posted by Higby

Secondary weapons on tanks are no joke.

This.
Baron, I think you were thinking of Battlefield 1942, where the secondary gunner was exposed (meaning certain death, indeed). In BFBC2, the secondary gun is insanely powerful against infantry. Especially if you exploit the spotting system, you simply mow down squishies without remorse.
It should also be noted that, with powerful AV weapons at the Engineer's disposal, tanks in BFBC2 are very vulnerable without a decent secondary gunner to watch the flanks and rear.

Higby, I have three questions for you, if I may:

1) Will tanks' survivability be scaled down to that of BFBC2, where 2-3 well-placed handheld AV shots were enough to blow a tank up? I played engineer and got most of my kicks from merciless tank-busting, so I know what I'm talking about.

2) When making this decision, did you factor in the common, ridiculous scenario from BFBC2, where the gunner/driver unleashes hell, while his secondary gunner/engineer continuously repairs him? Depending on the speed of the repair, and the amount of fire being taken, this gives the tank something like double or triple effective HP.
In PS1, this "tactic" would have required at least 3 people, which is a bit more fair.

3) Have you considered letting the driver use only the secondary gun? This would be especially fair considering that (as far as I understand) all (or most) of the unlocks for an MBT are for the secondary gun. This gives the guy who spent time certing the MBT+unlocks full use of what he invested time in, while requiring a second person for the second gun.

[Higby]

Originally Posted by FIREk

This.

Higby, I have three questions for you, if I may:

1) Will tanks' survivability be scaled down to that of BFBC2, where 2-3 well-placed handheld AV shots were enough to blow a tank up? I played engineer and got most of my kicks from merciless tank-busting, so I know what I'm talking about.

2) When making this decision, did you factor in the common, ridiculous scenario from BFBC2, where the gunner/driver unleashes hell, while his secondary gunner/engineer continuously repairs him? Depending on the speed of the repair, and the amount of fire being taken, this gives the tank something like double or triple effective HP.
In PS1, this "tactic" would have required at least 3 people, which is a bit more fair.

3) Have you considered letting the driver use only the secondary gun? This would be especially fair considering that (as far as I understand) all (or most) of the unlocks for an MBT are for the secondary gun. This gives the guy who spent time certing the MBT+unlocks full use of what he invested time in, while requiring a second person for the second gun.

1) I love AV in BFBC2 also, but I always do with a Assault + Lightweight kit + C4. C4ing tanks in that game is the most fun thing imo. It's CURRENTLY not quite as easy to take a tank down, but well placed shots definitely count, and concentrating fire is very possible with our AV classes.

2) Yes.

3) It wouldn't work very well for the magrider, but allowing the driver to man the secondary weapon seems like it could be worth trying. We can consider that and see how it plays.

[basti]

Originally Posted by Higby

1) I love AV in BFBC2 also, but I always do with a Assault + Lightweight kit + C4. C4ing tanks in that game is the most fun thing imo. It's CURRENTLY not quite as easy to take a tank down, but well placed shots definitely count, and concentrating fire is very possible with our AV classes.

2) Yes.

3) It wouldn't work very well for the magrider, but allowing the driver to man the secondary weapon seems like it could be worth trying. We can consider that and see how it plays.

I still dont understand how you guys could even remotly consider this new concept. It wasnt broken in Planetside 1.

Ofc you sometimes ended up with a stupid gunner who didnt hit crap, or you jumped into a tank to gun and the guy drove you right into a mine field, but thats part of the game. I often enough ended up getting a random guy who actually got a clue, heck i sometimes spend several hours in the same magrider with some random guy.

Im guessing that none of you guys ever did a big proper tank collum. ITs a shame. :/

I strongly suggest you give the driver power over the secondary weapon, and let the gunner get the main weapon.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by basti

I still dont understand how you guys could even remotly consider this new concept. It wasnt broken in Planetside 1.

Ofc you sometimes ended up with a stupid gunner who didnt hit crap, or you jumped into a tank to gun and the guy drove you right into a mine field, but thats part of the game. I often enough ended up getting a random guy who actually got a clue, heck i sometimes spend several hours in the same magrider with some random guy.

Im guessing that none of you guys ever did a big proper tank collum. ITs a shame. :/

I strongly suggest you give the driver power over the secondary weapon, and let the gunner get the main weapon.

I think one excellent reason is for the casual player.

It's hard for most of us to put ourselves in that position, but I've been there alot. Say you don't know alot of people in game. Right now, if that's the case, and you want to take part in using a tank, you have to spam and beg for a gunner, or wait around and spam and beg to gun for somebody else. This makes multi-person vehicles very much a hassle to use, and takes away from one of the amazing aspects of Planetside.

Now, with the new system of the driver getting a gun too, it's infinitely more inviting and FUN to the casual player that just wants to jump in, blow stuff up for a little bit, then get on with their busy lives.

I think it's a great idea that a tank can be effective with just the driver, but be far deadlier when filled with a full crew.

For many of us, we are used to running with organized outfits where setting up tank columns is common, but I don't want Planetside 2 to ONLY be for the hardcore, well-organized players. I want scale more than anything.

[FIREk]

Originally Posted by Higby

1) I love AV in BFBC2 also, but I always do with a Assault + Lightweight kit + C4. C4ing tanks in that game is the most fun thing imo. It's CURRENTLY not quite as easy to take a tank down, but well placed shots definitely count, and concentrating fire is very possible with our AV classes.

2) Yes.

3) It wouldn't work very well for the magrider, but allowing the driver to man the secondary weapon seems like it could be worth trying. We can consider that and see how it plays.

Thanks for replying!

1) I haven't played in a while, but mine was Engineer with a pump-action shotgun and whatever made me have more rockets and run better.
I hope that you liking the concept of C4ing tanks semi-suggests that we may see sticky Boomers in PS2?

2) Good to know, sorry for putting that in doubt. Just checking, you know?

3) I'm assuming this means that you switched weapon positions on the Mag and put the main gun in the hull, ass opposed to the turret in PS1's Mag?
Thanks for putting this under consideration.


This driver/gunner concept makes me wonder, though - what about buggies? Assuming they're in the game (and I hope so - buggies are cool too drive, too bad they were gimped in every Battlefield title I ever played, though), do they currently also require only one person to drive and use the main gun?