Trayvon Martin

[TheSHiFT]

Originally Posted by Traak

So, if, for example, a 300-pound martial artist attacks your sixteen-year-old daughter, she shouldn't shoot him.

He's unarmed.

The cure for being shot in self-defense is to NOT GO AROUND ATTACKING PEOPLE.

What if the 300lb martial artist was stalking my unarmed daughter. She tried to get away but couldnt. Under duress she attacks him as a likely threat in self-defense. He then shoots her dead. What then?

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Traak

So, if, for example, a 300-pound martial artist attacks your sixteen-year-old daughter, she shouldn't shoot him.

He's unarmed.

The cure for being shot in self-defense is to NOT GO AROUND ATTACKING PEOPLE.

Or randomly threatening them with guns creating an act of self defense the gun slinger uses as a case for self defense?

[BuzzCutPsycho]

This entire incident is a perfect illustration on why there is so much violence in America and it actually has very little to do with firearms.

[TheSHiFT]

It can still be a hate crime if it is Hispanic vs. Black.

Florida's laws are terrible, I legally could find Zimmerman, pick a fight with him (literally hitting him first) and when he fights back I can shot him and claim self-defense.

[TheSHiFT]

I should note the Florida statute:
"776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013."

There is no way a Jury would believe that Zimmerman reasonably believes Martin was a deadly threat while screaming for help. And that is ignoring everything else against Zimmerman in this case. What a shitty law.

[Hamma]

Yea sadly nobody actually SAW what happened.

But based on the 911 calls imo this guy could easily be convicted I don't believe the law even applies here. Why the police have not arrested him is beyond me I believe they have the cause to.

[Firefly]

Chief of Police has "temporarily" stepped down. US President has entered the fray, as well. Considering the hundreds of thousands of people who are actively protesting (and not this Facebook slacktivist bullshit), and the million-plus signatures on a petition, plus the fall-out within the police department, you can expect that Zimmerman will face charges and possibly arrest.

There were multiple 911 calls, not just Zimmerman's call. The victim was also on the phone with his girlfriend through much of the ordeal, up until the scuffle started. This guy was in his car, a grown-ass man in a vehicle... up against a skinny unarmed teenager on foot. The picture has been drawn - this neighborhood watch guy had no reason, no justification, and no official permission from the police, to draw his weapon or engage Martin. From all appearances Zimmerman was the aggressor.

I believe in innocence until proven guilty. The amount of evidence is compelling. What I also believe in is justice. And I think if Zimmerman is innocent he should do the right thing and turn himself in. The parents of this murdered child deserve to have their case heard in a court of law.

[ArcIyte]

Just goes to show the double standard that arises when race is thrown into the mix. It is much easier to claim "hate crime" when the person in question is White. Zimmerman is clearly Latino/Mestizo/Native/whatever you want to call it. If he is white, then so is Barack Obama. If the drive-by media can't get that right (or refuse to), then how can anyone trust the important information?

The people here claiming Martin was a "skinny teenager attacked by a full grown man": Martin was 6 foot 3, Zimmerman was 5 foot 9. Completely opposite of what some of you are claiming.

Anyone who is actually interested in justice (read: not social "justice") is only concerned with one question: We know Zimmerman was beaten. Did Martin attack Zimmerman, as he claims, or did Zimmerman attack Martin, who then turned the tables on Zimmerman and beat him to the point where Zimmerman shot Martin.

In those recordings people presume the screaming in the background is Martin. Early in the investigation it was assumed that it was Zimmerman, as Zimmerman told the police that he was screaming for help (which he never got, hence the firearm) during the fight.

Both Zimmerman and Martin were in public places where they legaly could be. Neither one committed any crime until the attack occurred. The question is, who started it? With the amount of useless racial and anti-gun propaganda, I doubt that question will even be center stage, let alone answered.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

Just goes to show the double standard that arises when race is thrown into the mix. It is much easier to claim "hate crime" when the person in question is White. Zimmerman is clearly Latino/Mestizo/Native/whatever you want to call it. If he is white, then so is Barack Obama. If the drive-by media can't get that right (or refuse to), then how can anyone trust the important information?

Zimmerman's ethnicity isn't important. He clearly isn't black, and he said "fucking coons" while chasing Martin down. If they wanted to charge this as a hate crime, they'd certainly have a case for it. Either way though, the problem is a 17 year old doing nothing more than drinking iced tea and eating candy was pursued, shot, and killed by someone else and the police did nothing about it. That's the outrage.

The people here claiming Martin was a "skinny teenager attacked by a full grown man": Martin was 6 foot 3, Zimmerman was 5 foot 9. Completely opposite of what some of you are claiming.

Zimmerman weighed 80 lbs more than Martin. Martin may have been taller, but he was clearly much skinnier. And he was unarmed, unless candy and a drink constitutes a weapon. They were Skittles though so, I dunno, those are pretty potent.

Anyone who is actually interested in justice (read: not social "justice") is only concerned with one question: We know Zimmerman was beaten. Did Martin attack Zimmerman, as he claims, or did Zimmerman attack Martin, who then turned the tables on Zimmerman and beat him to the point where Zimmerman shot Martin.

The police claimed witnesses gave testimony corroborating Zimmerman's story which the witnesses themselves say is false. The 911 call also contradicts the statement Zimmerman made, that he got out of his car to check the street sign and was jumped from behind by Martin. In this case, neither the police nor Zimmerman's testimony can be considered reliable.

In those recordings people presume the screaming in the background is Martin. Early in the investigation it was assumed that it was Zimmerman, as Zimmerman told the police that he was screaming for help (which he never got, hence the firearm) during the fight.

That was apparently part of the witness tampering.

Both Zimmerman and Martin were in public places where they legaly could be. Neither one committed any crime until the attack occurred. The question is, who started it? With the amount of useless racial and anti-gun propaganda, I doubt that question will even be center stage, let alone answered.

There doesn't seem to be any real question to it. Martin was committing no crime and Zimmerman ran after him, armed, to confront him. An altercation occurred and Martin, who was unarmed, was shot and killed. Zimmerman started the altercation by pursuing Martin without any reason, and Zimmerman fired the shot. I'm not sure where the ambiguity is here.

[ArcIyte]

There doesn't seem to be any real question to it

Tell me what crime Zimmerman committed before the fight started.

Saying "An altercation occurred and Martin was shot, Zimmerman is guilty" is oversimplifying it. The ambiguity lies in who started the physical fight.

[Warborn]

That would be oversimplifying it, which is probably why I didn't say it. In fact, I didn't even use the word guilty, did I? Fancy that.

The justification for Zimmerman shooting Martin is that Martin was threatening his life, right? That it was self defense? Well, apparently, he was such a threat to Zimmerman that Zimmerman had to get out of his vehicle and actually run Martin down before he fired his weapon at him. Sounds pretty perilous, huh? So Zimmerman chased him down while muttering racial epithets, and then for some reason an unarmed kid is shot in the chest and killed. And then Zimmerman lies to the police about what happened, claiming he was jumped by Martin from behind as he was getting out of his car to check street signs, despite the 911 call which completely contradicts that.

And yet you think the issue here is whether Martin threw a punch first or something? Seriously?

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Traak]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Chasing was a bit much

Why is chasing someone "a bit much"?

If you saw someone snooping around houses in your neighborhood, and he ran off, and you were a neighborhood watch person, or a citizen, would you think it was inappropriate to chase him?

[Vash02]

Originally Posted by Traak

Why is chasing someone "a bit much"?

If you saw someone snooping around houses in your neighborhood, and he ran off, and you were a neighborhood watch person, or a citizen, would you think it was inappropriate to chase him?

yup, snooping isnt a crime nor is "looking suspicious".

[Traak]

Originally Posted by Vash02

yup, snooping isnt a crime nor is "looking suspicious".

But, that isn't why he was shot.