Should infiltrator be the only class that can spot?

[Resolve]

Originally Posted by IMMentat

Almost as poorly considered as the "should infiltrators be the only ones allowed to capture points" poll.

Better off with a "do you approve ofspotting?" (yes/no/don't care/only with a specific tool), poll that that didnt start with a one line justification.

It's been said a few times that know infiltrators will probably get an enhancement to spotting compared to other classes (longer duration, class icons on minimaps, or something).

There is 2 separate threads on spotting. One for yes/no and one for discussion of infiltrator/LA. Go look on the front page of the forum.

And I haven't heard anything about infiltrators getting enhanced spotting.

[Resolve]

Originally Posted by Knightwyvern

2D spotting is fine with me, as long as it requires some effort and teamwork to use (squad/platoon only.) Currently the Infiltrators IFF device seems to fill this need.

As far as 3D spotting is concerned, I could do completely without it; but since we all know deep down that the game will have it, I just don't want it to be a built in sort of wall hack.

Chances are it won't be in the final version, and if it is we can get it removed/changed. That's what 3D is, the retarded step child of wall hacks. Easily the most terrible idea any game dev has ever had.

[Knightwyvern]

Originally Posted by Resolve

And I haven't heard anything about infiltrators getting enhanced spotting.

It was mentioned during the E3 stream at some point as something that the devs were looking at. Infiltrators already have an IFF device for 2D spotting, so makes sense.

[Zolan]

In my opinion no one should be able to spot.

However... I wouldn't mind if it was an ability that Infiltrators had to swap something out for.

In related news, they need to get rid of the enemy player names as well.
(whenever you put your cross-hairs over an enemy at distance)

What's the point of camouflage/cloaking/hiding in the dark when you have a giant "shoot here" sign above your head every time someones reticule passes over you?

It might not seem like a problem up close, but anyone who has played BF3 or any other shooter with considerable sniping distances will understand what I'm talking about. Especially if they've ever tried hiding in bushes or in the dark back corner of a distant room with a good sniping window (harder to see from a distance in most games).

[raidyr]

Either all classes should be able to spot or no classes should be able to spot.

That said I wouldn't be averse towards infiltrators getting better spotting/intel gathering options.

[Duddy]

What if someone could only (3D) spot 1 or 2 targets at a time?

How would that affect peoples perceptions of the mechanic? Would that make it acceptable given the other restrictions discussed?

I ask because I can't help but feel people are hung up on the idea of spamming q and just spotting everything.

[Resolve]

Originally Posted by Duddy

What if someone could only (3D) spot 1 or 2 targets at a time?

How would that affect peoples perceptions of the mechanic? Would that make it acceptable given the other restrictions discussed?

I ask because I can't help but feel people are hung up on the idea of spamming q and just spotting everything.

I still don't want it. It's still not adding anything to the gameplay and rather removing the aspect of surprise.

[Duddy]

Originally Posted by Resolve

I still don't want it. It's still not adding anything to the gameplay and rather removing the aspect of surprise.

Well I don't buy that, the act of surprise is the act of surprise with or without a spotting mechanism.

If you get spotted by a player using VOIP then he can report back to his squad where you were. If said player spotted you and spotting is enabled all it does is allow them to be more precise with the feedback and more swift. Either way you were spotted.

I suppose the difference with a spotting system similar to what already exists elsewhere is that it permanently paints the target.

So perhaps then, a 3D spotting system that only reports the last known location of the enemy? I'm imagining something similar to the system used in Deus Ex: HR, whereby a transparent "ghost" is left behind showing you where the enemy thinks you were last.

I think my point is, I think spotting can be a valuable addition, it just needs to be a system designed for PS2 and not one ripped directly from say BF3 which is what most people continue to perceive when discussing the subject.

[Resolve]

Originally Posted by Duddy

Well I don't buy that, the act of surprise is the act of surprise with or without a spotting mechanism.

If you get spotted by a player using VOIP then he can report back to his squad where you were. If said player spotted you and spotting is enabled all it does is allow them to be more precise with the feedback and more swift. Either way you were spotted.

I suppose the difference with a spotting system similar to what already exists elsewhere is that it permanently paints the target.

So perhaps then, a 3D spotting system that only reports the last known location of the enemy? I'm imagining something similar to the system used in Deus Ex: HR, whereby a transparent "ghost" is left behind showing you where the enemy thinks you were last.

I think my point is, I think spotting can be a valuable addition, it just needs to be a system designed for PS2 and not one ripped directly from say BF3 which is what most people continue to perceive when discussing the subject.

It removes the aspect of surprise because the enemy will know exact position while also being able to see you through walls. Does that sound like a good game mechanic to you? I can spam Q all day in BF3 so my buddies have wall hacks. Not hard. Stupid design. The FPS community hates it. COD doesn't even have it. CS:S doesn't have it. CS:S is the most competitive FPS ever. There's good reason for that.

The only way I will ever accept spotting is class specific and tool-based(binoculars or something).

[Duddy]

Originally Posted by Resolve

It removes the aspect of surprise because the enemy will know exact position while also being able to see you through walls. Does that sound like a good game mechanic to you? I can spam Q all day in BF3 so my buddies have wall hacks. Not hard. Stupid design. The FPS community hates it. COD doesn't even have it. CS:S doesn't have it. CS:S is the most competitive FPS ever. There's good reason for that.

The only way I will ever accept spotting is class specific and tool-based(binoculars or something).

Well it's clear you have no intent to discuss the topic, as you seem to be disregarding any suggestion to make the mechanic less invasive.

But that's fine, continue to spout your opinion as loud as possible at anyone willing to have a reasonable discussion.

I'd rather not try to convince someone who is doing the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and going "LALALALALALALA", but at least I tried.

[Resolve]

Originally Posted by Duddy

Well it's clear you have no intent to discuss the topic, as you seem to be disregarding any suggestion to make the mechanic less invasive.

But that's fine, continue to spout your opinion as loud as possible at anyone willing to have a reasonable discussion.

I'd rather not try to convince someone who is doing the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and going "LALALALALALALA", but at least I tried.

I've given you examples as to why spotting doesn't work, and the only way it will work. It's obvious that you have a terrible reading comprehension. That being said, spotting will always be invasive no matter what.

[Duddy]

Originally Posted by Resolve

I've given you examples as to why spotting doesn't work, and the only way it will work. It's obvious that you have a terrible reading comprehension. That being said, spotting will always be invasive no matter what.

You don't fool me with your posturing; I've read the thread and your "examples" consist of only opinion and some weak anecdotes.

At no point have you made a compelling and reasoned argument that extends beyond, to paraphrase: "I think it sucks because it sucks in BF3, this is the truth cause I say so".

If you think that is how a discussion works, then it is fairly obvious why it is seemingly impossible to reason with you.

[Red Beard]

Originally Posted by Resolve

I've given you examples as to why spotting doesn't work, and the only way it will work. It's obvious that you have a terrible reading comprehension. That being said, spotting will always be invasive no matter what.

Dude, you completely ignored what he was saying and presumed (or pretended?) he was just flapping his gums without addressing a different angle on the matter from what you were talking about.

Then you do exactly that?

[Resolve]

Originally Posted by Duddy

You don't fool me with your posturing; I've read the thread and your "examples" consist of only opinion and some weak anecdotes.

At no point have you made a compelling and reasoned argument that extends beyond, to paraphrase: "I think it sucks because it sucks in BF3, this is the truth cause I say so".

If you think that is how a discussion works, then it is fairly obvious why it is seemingly impossible to reason with you.

It does suck because it sucks in BF3. That's why people play HC more. Were you even around when the uproar happened about 3d spotting in bf3? I guess not...I have faith in the planetside community to get this right.

[Werefox]

I do like the idea of 3D spotting where the spotted player is only visible until the team spotting them loses sight of them. I also think that this is something that every class should be able to do. Perhaps the infiltrator should have some additional tooling to help in that role (perhaps tracker darts for vehicles when working in sniper role?), but to be honest, I almost see the light assault as being the closer fit in that role.

3D spotting lowers the entry requirements for PUG squads to work as an effective team - which has just got to be good for everyone involved. I have yet to hear anyone reminisce about the time their squad ROFL-stomped a PUG squad that was full of disorganised headless-chickens. Rather you are more often likely to hear about battles that were ridiculously close and could have gone either way.