AGN: Consolidated Community Clash Feedback Thread

[robocpf1]

Periodic Scoring is a great suggestion, and I'd like to mirror what Sardus said. It did feel kind of POINTless (PUNPUNPUN) to have those awesome holds for much of the match and then a quick flip of two points in the last few seconds cinched the win. So, that in mind, theorycrafting (this is only an example to encourage discussion and should not be taken as a direct suggestion of format change):

Not only could you take the score of who has what point at 5 minute intervals, you could introduce scoring for continuous holding of 2/3 points. In Round 3 when TRG was holding 2/3 points for something like 5-7 continuous minutes, they should have scored some points for that. I would almost say if attackers can hold 2/3 of cap points for more than 2 minutes, you should get some sort of score for that, and defenders could in turn be rewarded for completely preventing attackers from having 2/3. I don't want to make this really complicated though. Let's give it a shot, I'm using 1 point for each capture point held at each interval.

Match start, VS defending, TR attacking.

5 minute mark: everyone is fighting over the points and they've been continuously flipping, nobody has held a point for very long, but at the 5 minute mark VS hold two and TR holds one. Score: VS 2, TR 1

10 minute mark: Same situation, except TR now hold two and VS only hold one. Score: VS 3, TR 3

At the 11 minute mark TR hunkers down at point B and C and holds them both, uninterrupted, for 2 minutes. That nets them an additional 2 points, a "hold bonus". VS do not get a hold bonus for A, because holding one point is still losing the base. Score: VS 3, TR 5

TR eventually loses hold of those two points and it's back to intense fighting over all three.

At the 15 minute mark, or whatever the "end" is, VS makes a mad push for all three points and caps them as the timer hits zero, making the score VS 6, TR 5 - but that's a lot better than a similar situation (a situation that happened last night) where the score was VS 2, TR 0. This eliminates "playing to a draw" and awards points based on performance during the round instead of the end result of the round. However, it also requires a lot of stopwatches.

[Malorn]

I liked how you had the two outfit leaders during the break talking after each round, specifically how they were talking to each other. Some great sportsmanship in this competition, really impressed by both GOTR and TRG, hope this sets a good precedent for all PS2 competitions.

[Noxxia]

Awesome feedback continues! Thanks guys!

one comment on the rule length though. We tried short simple rules, and it only caused more problems with outfits not being on the same page. While it is tedious and annoying, specifics are needed. counter strike rulesets also were very long, and that game is much more simple.

http://www.cevo.com/event/css-season1/rules/

[NotTheMomma]

I agree with Sardus & Robo about the scoring. In fact, I commented in TS post-match that it felt kind of silly fighting for so long when only the last 60 seconds really mattered.

I have a few years past experience in competitive gaming, and, maybe I'm getting old, but that event was too damn long, lol. It's hard to stay "up" that long continuously. While there were numerous delays due to technical issues, the official breaks were 5 minutes, so we were sitting there tensed up (at least I was) for going on 4 hours. While I used to go on 12-hour marathon GvG matches in the original Guild Wars, we'd still stop for 20-30 min or so every few hours, take care of eating & the like, then queue back up.

Playing was a lot of fun, and I hope most of it was fun to watch, but I don't feel like anything was really "decided" by the match, if that makes any sense. Without having development powers, I don't know how even a playing field you could potentially provide or how to really measure effectiveness when the main game doesn't really support even-Steven, equal teams competitive gameplay. Battle Islands on PTS will probably help a bunch.

Until then, I would suggest you guys choose the two (or simply one) bases that will be used, and announce them well in advance. In this fashion, you can choose bases that will be more or less balanced in attack and defense and suited to the number of competitors. The teams will be able to form some interesting strategy in advance, and then we'll see who can adapt the best when their marvelous plans break down, lol.

Thanks for all the hard work y'all are doing for the community.

[Nutters]

I think it would be really cool for the scoring system to be based on length of point capture. It may be tedious, and hard to be completely accurate, but if someone's job was to just time and add up points for each node controlled for each team, I think that would be really neat. There should definitely be something for controlling points the longest.

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by NotTheMomma

I agree with Sardus & Robo about the scoring. In fact, I commented in TS post-match that it felt kind of silly fighting for so long when only the last 60 seconds really mattered.

Well, if it works for the NBA...

[Kalee J]

Even with flaws, this was still more enjoyable to watch than War Report in my opinion.

[Luperza]

On the comment about more community marketing, the Official Planetside 2 social network channels will also be advertising the event going forward. So keep a lookout for those Tweets and what not! Share and RT them to help grow the competitive community.

As well as you may see some other aspects arise as SOE is able to help support the event and show throughout the upcoming months. :P

[Calista]

Originally Posted by Luperza

...

Didn't you say you were going on vacation?

[DES Mono]

I got logged out from my huuuuge write up! ;.;

[DES Mono]

I'll keep it straight to the point because I don't feel like typing all that back up. Sorry if is sounds dry without compassion or crap like that...too tired now!

Commentary: Try covering specific roles and taking turns. Color and Technical, classic tested combo, everyone does it for a reason. Keep it simple and stupid, great basic to learn is to commentate like you are on the radio, or a podcast (hur), meaning explain the little things step by step. "And TRG is storming point C with 7 guys through the West side. They clear the room with their 3 Max support combo!" You guys are getting better, keep it up.

Viewership: On screen clock/countdown timer, small team score ticker, Video feeds labeled with what team they will be focused on, blow up of mini-map. Out of your hands point: I agreed with Dreadnought in stream, observer came with "x-ray" vision/god mod clipping view/etc. would be great. Camera operators could try pressing alt and using the pointer to point out keep points for commentary to focus on or to expand and enhance.

Full rule set needs to be explained at the beginning of the cast with specifics reiterated through out. I thought an info-graphic would help this out and am working on them now.

Gameplay: Needs to be shorter. Maybe three "halfs." I would say aim for a hour and a half program, with minor delays.

Programming: While the gameplay may need shortening, it is okay to add in more commentary and more pre and post match analysis. Break down the chosen base, do a observer game walkthough, point out cap points, choke points, spawn rooms, terminals, and key strategic spots: like a ridge overlooking the base, a back door, etc.

Ambitious idea: most teams have one streamer. Have those streamers start and stop their stream at each round. Keep tabs on the point of time during the match that a key shift happens. Visit those players stream archives and see what it was like to be in the action at that point of time. It's as close as we are going to get to a first person camera with out going to their stream directly, which is a constant heavy bandwidth burden.

Semi off topic. +1 for Kidriot's match breakdown. +1 to community effort. +1 to this community. Love you guys. Total homo.

Good night,
-Jeremy
Edit: Phew! Almost lost that one too. Would have had a heart attack. So tired. Yay sleep.

[Hamma]

Countdown Timer is definitely coming as long as we can make it work for next week! As well as a scoreboard. First person cams should also be coming as long as we can get a beefier stream server up. We use a private server for streaming the obscams and FPS cams to limit delay.

[inigma]

....

[NewSith]

Okay I finally got some time to watch the show and here's my feedback (DA vs BWC):

I'll start by saying that I was amazed with the quality of the show, considering it was pretty mach a fan-made show, started by players without much esport broadcasting experience.

Now more detailed feedback and suggestions:

• Find a solution to latency, because commentary is several seconds ahead.
• It's preferable to have 2 commentators max, since when there're 3 commentators, pandemonium sets loose during a heated battle.
• Before the show, ask the players who can stream (harmlessly for their performance) to put streams up. First person view is always interesting, besides it makes checking out loadouts possible.
• I strongly advise keeping an eye on the score tab ("Tab" button), and point out individual player achievements, since 12v12 is not a very big format and allows for this.
• Similar to the previous point, try and look out for players' achievement druing fights (like killstreaks, AMS destructions etc), and name these players.
• Multiple cameras are great, but I suggest that there's always only 1 on-screen camera with one person responsible for choosing which is active. I can safely bet that Mrs. Hamma can do that. Or else invite a friend to your enterprise.
• The squad roster class callouts are great, but I'd advise some more speculating on how the comp can be used in battles, its strengths and weaknesses. Commentators did that, but they didn't go in-depth.
• Some acting skills would also benefit the show, as some significant pushes should make the commentator sound excited, even if he isn't. A bit more drama always makes watching interesting.
• Less talk about the general stuff, like the environment, unless it's somehow tied to the team, like "the point has alot of cover but Outfit Name did not use it to it's full potential, and, I think, that is why they lost the first wave", etc. Basically you should comment for an informed player rather than a newbie who can't see what's happening.
• Before releasing the recording, I'd suggest making a short Clash Highlights video with some poetic newscaster-like commentary. Something like that* (see the asterisk), shedding some ligh onto the even't main highlights. Avoid the mentions of unrelated things like randoms popping out on the point etc, unless these were gamechanging.
• When showing team comps via squad window, zoom in on the list, so it is actually visible and put an outfit's logo onto screen so people can see whose squad is on the screen even if they don't hear sound.
• It's the first event and it certainly needed polishing, but changing the rules during the event is not exactly a good idea.
• Less webcams even when there's nothing to see on the map. Talking faces are more still than player characters running around in circles, even if it may seem quite the opposite.
• If at all possible - have 2 extra dummy players on two teams with continental map opened at the place of combat to fully see the movements of players. This is not necessarily a screen to show the viewers, but a mere tool to help cameraman (cameramen).

*"After grouping up for their first combat, both teams were using what some may call "unorthodox" comps, Black Widow Company chose to gather MAXes, sacrificing Heavy Assault slots, while DasAnfall decided to use as many Heavy Assaults as possible. DA quickrushed BWC with harrasers and infantry, quickly taking over the point not letting BWC take it back, resulting in BWC losing their first defense rather quickly, despite their hard effort to ensure the proper entrenching with mines and Anti-Vehicular setups. The start of the second half was extremely spectacular as DA had a very interesting tactic in mind: while BWC tried to use the quickrush methods similar to DA's, DA countered their own tactic with droppods raining down from the sky and taking high ground. Successful ambush denied the first strike to their enemy with one successful smoke grenade and..."

[Pella]

What time are these Clashes?

I'm sure i can get my guys to stay up late one night to participate. FNO Was 2am and we managed that.

We would love to get some outfit action versus you yanks :P

We can have a USAvEU Situation. Which will be great viewing.

Are there any outfits up for this?