Reloadtitis - Page 3

Gonefshn · 2012-06-27, 02:36 PM

Love slower reload. As it has been stated I agree it makes you take your ammo more seriously. Reloading is a part of the gameplay. It is part of the moment to moment decisions you are making to be an effective player. If you reload in one second then whats they point of even having it in?

I'd love some certs for faster reload time but nothing like slight of hand in COD. Just a very slight reload time decrease for a small advantage.

Vamoozi · 2012-06-27, 02:42 PM

Anyone else read the thread name as Reloadtits?

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ThermalReaper · 2012-06-27, 03:33 PM

EDIT: Yeah, I don't want to look like an idiot who keeps bumping so I'll add something.
Someone suggested a Bar that appears when you reload and you press the R button at the right time it shortens the reload time. If you press it at the wrong time, the time increases or stays the same. Yay or Nay in your opinion?

Russ · 2012-06-27, 03:34 PM

5-10 second reload time i am comfortable with. Its realisting (i know moot point, its a game but its still true) but isnt so long that you get into that oh crap moment. I think its a fair time.

Otleaz · 2012-06-27, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by ThermalReaper

Someone suggested a Bar that appears when you reload and you press the R button at the right time it shortens the reload time. If you press it at the wrong time, the time increases or stays the same. Yay or Nay in your opinion?

That would be lovely, but this isn't a console. You don't even need to be a hacker to run a macro that will do this for you.

ThermalReaper · 2012-06-27, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Otleaz

That would be lovely, but this isn't a console. You don't even need to be a hacker to run a macro that will do this for you.

I seriously wish to take a pencil and shove it up some hacker's butthole. They Ruined Undespited galaxy, they ruined planetside reserves, they ruined warrock and countless other games.

Littleman · 2012-06-27, 03:44 PM

In an old, old Half-Life mod called Firearms, magazines tracked the ammo left in them. Reloading was a little time consuming, but there was a skill available to greatly enhance it. This game even knew to chamber a round when reloading with an empty barrel.

The thing is, the character never just chucked the magazine, but they didn't track ammo in the traditional fashion. Fire off a few rounds and reload, somewhere through the reload cycle you'll come back to that 16 round magazine you used some time ago.

Firearms also had bleed effects, broken legs that needed a splint, etc. Game was way ahead of it's time in terms of "realism." People opted for Counter-Strike simply because it was much easier to get into.

However, while I personally found Firearm's reloading system to be pretty cool and thoughtful, for the sake of making the game a FUN FPS for MANY people, like with Counter-Strike I think sticking with the traditional reload mechanics of magically topped off magazines would be for the best. I justify slower reload times with discouraging run and gun gameplay and encouraging picking up weapon certifications that improve one's weapon control, including reload speed.

Nemises · 2012-06-27, 03:57 PM

have a look at the way the guys at interstellar marines are doing it (http://www.interstellarmarines.com/)...there's a demo of their shooting mechanic called "bullseye" (uses the unity in browser engine..well worth a play)...anyway,

..basically, if you reload with a round still chambered then there is a shorter load process than if you let it run dry (have to chamber the first round of fresh mag)..

..I also prefer the "throw away a full mag = loose the rounds" school of play

Sirisian · 2012-06-27, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by ThermalReaper

It's about the reload time itself. [...] What do you feel about it? Too long or too short? Thanks for the honest replies anyways.

I prefer reload times that are "long". That is where throwing a grenade or pulling a secondary weapon or retreating is necessary. 3-5 second reload times for rifles and 2 second reload for pistol would be what I'd expect. Especially for TR weapons with their high cap magazines and drums. I would not be against reload times over 5 seconds for certain weapons.

Sabot covered this well:

Originally Posted by Sabot

Long enough to almost force you to find cover when you're reloading, or you'll be very vulnerable. But not so long that after you find cover you have to wait 3 seconds more for it to reload.

for example... if you're standing in the open, shooting, and suddenly your guns noises go from "bang bang" to "click click", and you start to reload... the reload time should make you feel very vulnerable out in the open.

Okay also onto the bigger issue of why people reload when they're missing one bullet. There is no penalty for doing it other than the time. We have many threads related to creating a sane reload system for magazines.

Limited Ammo Thread. (old thread before the resource system).
Ammunition
Implausible Reload
Why the community hates active reload

Okay so once you've read those:

Originally Posted by LZachariah

I always prefer the realistic reload wherein, if you have a 30-round magazine, fire one shot, and then reload, you've just thrown away 29 rounds. Most games don't interpret it this realistically. Battlefield 2142 did (loved that damn game). In the end, this isn't a big problem for me either way, but the realistic-reload is my preference.

Originally Posted by xnorb

Of course either way would also work, but it would be damn frustrating to
run out of ammo just because you were forced to throw away a clip as
it held too few bullets for a successful encounter.

Originally Posted by Otleaz

That isn't realistic at all. Ammo doesn't somehow disappear after it has left your gun. If you take it out of your gun and put it in your ammo pouch, next time you check, it will still be there.

I mean who is stupid enough to throw an entire magazine away because you used one bullet?

This was discussed in those threads. Solution:

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Also in that limited ammo thread I, along with others, discussed ways to cycle ammo between magazines if players wanted that option. For instance, by sorting magazines by ammo such that pressing R reloaded the most full one. Tapping R cycled down the available magazines and holding R would unload the bullets of the most empty mag into the most full magazine to top it off continuing down the list. A progress bar would indicate the progress. This allows a rather seamless system for managing magazines. If you get a new magazine, for instance from looting, it would just go to the top of the queue. There might be a maximum number of magazines a class can hold.

Lastly some of this comes down to the game underutilizing the resource system. Ammo is currently a free thing that players take for granted when respawning. We have dozens of threads now where people have suggested a stronger resource based system that allows people to customize down to how much ammo they spawn with. I digress, use the search function to find out more.

Envenom · 2012-06-27, 07:34 PM

I really love games that use the clip system as mentioned earlier in this post. It gives a cool sense of realism and makes you think twice before randomly spraying. I used to play BF2: Project Reality and they used this system. I remember it being very fun.

99% of games use the bullet system, which is ok... it's a concession to make the game faster paced. Does that make it better? I don't think so, though you're free to disagree. I'd love to see a clip system used in PS2.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-27, 07:48 PM

Reload times are a good way to differentiate guns. From the streams I saw pistols having a very fast reload.

If they want to discourage "reloaditis" an easy way to go about it is the Day of Defeat method, where any rounds left in a magazine when you reload are lost. It keeps unnecessary shots to a minimum and gives value to guns with large magazines, and penalizes players who reload too quickly and don't make shots count. It's a bit more on the realistic side with player carrying magazines not a giant bucket of bullets that magically load themselves. Then again, nanites.

Bravix · 2012-06-27, 07:52 PM

Reload shouldn't be any faster than 3 seconds, as that's pretty fast. The reload speeds on COD are a joke at best.

As far as reloading when there's still ammo in the mag, do it like ARMA. You keep the mag, but the ammo doesn't magically spread out to the other mags. Eventually, if you keep reloading partial mags, you'll end up with a bunch of partials.

Example:

Start with 5 mags that hold 30 bullets each.
You fire shots, reload a partial mag, repeat.

You end up having a mag with 1 bullet, another with 2, another with 5, another with 4...you get the idea.

Realistically, you wouldn't just toss a partial mag...but you certainly wouldn't have the time to transfer the ammo to another mag.

LazyBonez · 2012-06-27, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Reizod

I'm guessing there will be upgrades/certs that would lower the reload times. Which would make it on par with other current FPS games.

This

Each gun has its own cert tree to upgrade the reload speed.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-27, 08:26 PM

There's also different types of reloading (tactical vs speed) and gun mods to facilitate faster reloads (like redi-mag, jungle-style).

Here's a good video showing tactical, speed, and redi-mag reloads.

I could see things like expanded magazines and jungle style as customization options to allow more rapid reloads. Could even style it up, with NC Jungle style being the traditional two-mags-taped-together, the TR with a more manufactured approach with something like a redi-mag, and the VS with like a dual power cell or something of that nature.

In the video the tactical reload was 6-7 seconds, while the speed reload was only 3 seconds. The redi-mag was 2.

Even if they don't recycle mags or anything of that nature I'd like to see reload speed as a customization option. Implant is an obvious option and would fit well, but perhaps gun customization is also available in the form of expanded magazines or a redi-mag type solution.

RovingDeath · 2012-06-27, 08:39 PM

That's a clip up there; magazines are the enclosed things we use in most modern firearms.

To the point though, I like systems where you don't automatically reload your magazines to magically have a full one every time you reload no matter what, but I also think that turns a lot of people off.

If you really want to justify the magically full magazines, you could always just say we have some capacitor full of nanites that charges them when they aren't in the weapon. Like a battery charger that's part of the character's armor.