Are AP Cannons underpowered? - Page 3

Rothnang · 2013-03-20, 05:22 PM

In all honesty, those armor certs should be removed from MBTs.

Instead of being able to up-armor a section of the tank you should be able to pick multiple kinds of all around armor.

Like Reactive armor which makes you much tougher to hurt with explosives, or ablative armor which gives you more hitpoints. In real life armor is tailored to the most likely type of threat. Vehicles can be fitted with directed energy emitters which destroy incoming missiles for example.

A hardkill system that destroys any incoming missile weapons for example would be an awesome cert up for a tank if you intend to fight infantry.

The current tank armor certs are just kind of lame, especially when you take a quick glance at the Sunderer with its insane Blockade armor.

Cruiza · 2013-03-20, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

In all honesty, those armor certs should be removed from MBTs.

Instead of being able to up-armor a section of the tank you should be able to pick multiple kinds of all around armor.

Like Reactive armor which makes you much tougher to hurt with explosives, or ablative armor which gives you more hitpoints. In real life armor is tailored to the most likely type of threat. Vehicles can be fitted with directed energy emitters which destroy incoming missiles for example.

A hardkill system that destroys any incoming missile weapons for example would be an awesome cert up for a tank if you intend to fight infantry.

The current tank armor certs are just kind of lame, especially when you take a quick glance at the Sunderer with its insane Blockade armor.

I agree about the current MBT armor certs being boring and underwhelming. They should be removed or consolidated into a single cert or cert line and new armor systems should be added, each with its own cert line. If an active hardkill system were to be added to the game, it should probably function similarly to the current flares/smokescreens in terms of having a cooldown period. The cert line upgrades could then lower the cooldown and/or increase the number of projectiles that can be intercepted.

Rothnang · 2013-03-20, 06:14 PM

Yea, the armor upgrades should come in packages like the Airframes for aircraft. The airframes were a real stroke of genius when they were introduced. They aren't perfect in their balancing, but back when every single flight characteristic was its own cert it was a bloody mess, now the choice is more maningful and real.

Falcon_br · 2013-03-20, 06:39 PM

I am ok with the current setting, new players would be ashamed if they could not kill enemy tanks with the standart cannon of they MBT because they didn´t have certs to the the AP one.

Rothnang · 2013-03-20, 07:09 PM

Yea, the HEAT cannon shouldn't be useless against tanks, but right now the AP gun just feels like a downgrade.

If you practically give up your ability to fight infantry effectively you really ought to gain something in return.

Neutral Calypso · 2013-03-20, 09:47 PM

Strange, when I did the same test, the AP destroyed a sunderer in a shorter time than the HEAT did. :/

Falcon_br · 2013-03-21, 01:21 AM

The TR players can felll the useful of the AP because sometimes it takes one less reload to kill a tank or sunderer, but the vanguard players don't have that same opportunity.
But it is still an upgrade, because faster bullets and a little more damage really helps to untie a tank battle, with long range tank battle is a must have.
In my outfit we normally do 2 prowlers with AP and that rocket, and 2 with heat and that chaingun, so we can support the infantry units against tanks and a bit of help against infantry.

bpostal · 2013-03-21, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

Yea, the armor upgrades should come in packages like the Airframes for aircraft. The airframes were a real stroke of genius when they were introduced. They aren't perfect in their balancing, but back when every single flight characteristic was its own cert it was a bloody mess, now the choice is more meaningful and real.

I agree, though I will say that while the flight certs may have been a mess it was an absolute dream to be able to just cert into hill climbing for my bang bus.

ColdCheese · 2013-03-21, 02:56 AM

After the HE nerf, went all in on AP rounds for my Prowler and almost maxed reload times, just need last one. Figured farming armor would be the new thing now that XP for killing them has dramatically increased. While I have been taking out tanks like crazy, I'm sometimes puzzled how I get killed so often by Heat. If the OP is right, then Heat needs to be nerfed bigtime. I hate having to give up my ability to effectively kill infantry in exchange for such a small gain in AV destruction.

While its always a rush to kill an infantry with AP round, gotta have aimbot like aiming skills sometimes, especially with the god awful offset Prowler cannons and the annoying rocking bug. I have to sometimes even hop out and shoot a rushing suicide miner/c-4 because its damn near impossible to hit a running infantry with AP.

I was considering AP on my Lightning so I can snipe tanks, but Heat is cheaper and supposedly kills armor in the same amount of hits and can still be used to lock down a spawn room. Sounds almost like a no brainer to me, very disappointing, especially considering the high cert costs to max out reload and zoom for each specific cannon instead of being a universal cert for each tank

Falcon_br · 2013-03-21, 03:17 AM

Dude, you are a TR player, it is often one less reload to kill enemy tanks with AP, so you are killing them 3,75 faster.
Also, the vanguard can one hit kill ESF with AP, heat won't do the trick, and prowlers can't one hit kill ESP.

ColdCheese · 2013-03-21, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Dude, you are a TR player, it is often one less reload to kill enemy tanks with AP, so you are killing them 3,75 faster.
Also, the vanguard can one hit kill ESF with AP, heat won't do the trick, and prowlers can't one hit kill ESP.

Try and consistently hit a moving tank with both rounds, the offset cannons makes it no easy task. Vanguard has a shield, you can get in 2 rounds and take no damage, while I'm a sitting duck with my anchor deployed.

Falcon_br · 2013-03-21, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by ColdCheese

Try and consistently hit a moving tank with both rounds, the offset cannons makes it no easy task. Vanguard has a shield, you can get in 2 rounds and take no damage, while I'm a sitting duck with my anchor deployed.

Dude, I am a TR player, I know the offsets of the prowler, I don't use the stupid anchored mode.
A vanguard dies in 8 shots from ap, 9 from heat, it is one less reload, if you hit all shots. Both in close combat one less reload means lesser time to kill them the vanguard.
If you are close to a vanguard, using ap, run even closer to him, he will not miss you, and you won't also miss him, with the higher dps and AP, it is sure you will kill him before he can kill you.
On long range combats, you will lose at least half a second each shot to compensate the recoil, it is enought to lose a 1x1 combat with a vanguard if both are hitting each other in the front.
Also, even if the vanguard got side armor, always use your speed so he hits your side armor and you hit his side armor, it will be worst for him, even if both got side armor.
The only problem of charging is the possibility of meeting other enemies.
Also, the vanguard got the same lack of back armor as other tanks, wait him to hit your side, run and hit him in the back before he reloads, but after some shots and you got speed to do that.

So ap for prowlers means one less reload.
Ap for vanguard means one shot to kill esf.
Ap for mag riders don't means anything.

PredatorFour · 2013-03-21, 07:04 AM

Mag AP 2 shots libs and one shots esf's, still agree AP should be abit more powerful. With the new vehicle xp buff people should be driving around with AP but they're not... and that tells its own story imo.

Baneblade · 2013-03-21, 08:28 AM

Im pretty sure the Titan HEAT cannon can osk esfs.

Falcon_br · 2013-03-21, 12:54 PM

Ok, used the calculator:
http://www.ps2calc.com

Vanguard can one shot kill with heat an ESF. Looks like the devs made it that way.
The only tank that changes from 2sk to 1sk esf is the magrider with heat and ap.

Also used the calculator to confirm that you need one less shot to kill a magrider with ap them the heat (from 5 to 4 on the sides), if that's not enought you guys really wants to ruin the game with OP ap cannons.