Biolab got butchered (PTS) - Page 3

typhaon · 2013-10-24, 01:42 PM

We'll have to see. My first impression is that I agree with OP.

But... didn't get a chance for a "real" play test.... just Allatum defended by 50% ZOE MAXes (these really need to be fixed) and being attacked by 25% NC and 25% TR.

Suffice to say, the defenders were doing fine.

I suspect under most normal game situations, BL will be pretty hard to defend, now.

SolLeks · 2013-10-24, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by typhaon

We'll have to see. My first impression is that I agree with OP.

But... didn't get a chance for a "real" play test.... just Allatum defended by 50% ZOE MAXes (these really need to be fixed) and being attacked by 25% NC and 25% TR.

Suffice to say, the defenders were doing fine.

I suspect under most normal game situations, BL will be pretty hard to defend, now.

TBA I don't see the biolabs being any harder to defend, its not like they got rid of the major choke points or anything.

ringring · 2013-10-24, 02:18 PM

As a rule of thumb I reckoned Bio's were very defensible until attackers got to a 60:40 ratio of attackers to defenders.

Very similar to Interlinks in PS1. But what did we have extra to enable Interlinks to be taken? Base drains and Routers, PS2 needs those or similar. (They also needs techplants and Amps to be buffed.)

Lonehunter · 2013-10-24, 02:23 PM

This is horrible. Why increase the walk time? If you want to punish defenders why not just increase the respawn time? (Because that's too blatantly a nerf) You're immune inside that spawn, so it's just an extra annoying step to get back to combat. Then going through the bottom level, which could be easily controlled by vehicles, is ridiculous. Then they even change the building in the dome to a tiny spawn, which will now be so much easier to control as an assaulting faction.

Every time I check in on PS2 news again I get disappointed lol

Hmr85 · 2013-10-24, 02:43 PM

They are going to have to make those shields below the Bio impassable by shield diffused Sundys or Harrassers.

I'm telling ya right now. As soon as a group of players half way organized figure out that they just need to go there and lock down the teleporter it is over. Also, have the generator not disable the shield below the Bio. I see that as a huge flaw with the current Bio layout. Otherwise from what I can tell from the videos it looks fine.

Rahabib · 2013-10-24, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Hmr85

They are going to have to make those shields below the Bio impassable by shield diffused Sundys or Harrassers.

agreed

Originally Posted by Hmr85

I'm telling ya right now. As soon as a group of players half way organized figure out that they just need to go there and lock down the teleporter it is over. Also, have the generator not disable the shield below the Bio. I see that as a huge flaw with the current Bio layout. Otherwise from what I can tell from the videos it looks fine.

or make it so that the generators can be held much better, perhaps make it so they have to take down multiple generators or have it so that the defenders can get there quicker (another teleport room?). Maybe we get better fights around the gen as a result.

Anyway, I would have to test it before I can condemn it, but it could be fixed even if its as bad as everyone says.

typhaon · 2013-10-24, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Hmr85

They are going to have to make those shields below the Bio impassable by shield diffused Sundys or Harrassers.

I'm telling ya right now. As soon as a group of players half way organized figure out that they just need to go there and lock down the teleporter it is over. Also, have the generator not disable the shield below the Bio. I see that as a huge flaw with the current Bio layout. Otherwise from what I can tell from the videos it looks fine.

Excluding the shield issue, which you are totally right about....

My thoughts are that in "normal" gameplay - it will be a lot harder for defenders to respond to any kind of organized attack on a BL, because the points will likely be captured and defenses setup around the shield room - before defenders can even start respawning.... And given the 3 min timer.. the fights will be over in a flash.

Timed out the run... the new location effectively adds 20 seconds to respawn times for defenders in the BL.

Illtempered · 2013-10-24, 04:02 PM

As a staunch supporter of this game early on, these devs continue to amaze me with how little they understand their own game. Like the 3 minute cap timer didn't make biolabs easy enough to take?

Unf#$%ingbelievable

Jonny · 2013-10-24, 04:21 PM

I'd love to hear a dev comment on the reasoning behind this one.

It's a mind boggling design decision which seems to just create more problems. Did the reasoning go like this?

"I know, instead of fixing the spawn camping issues in this game, lets make the room the defenders exit from in the biolabs even smaller and easier to camp. Then lets make them have a long, boring and frankly stupid run following yellow arrows through some spawn room, up stairs (why have a teleporter upstairs which only takes you 1/3 the way there, who designed this?) through one easily campable teleporter in the garage, then finally to that small exit in the biolab. There, FIXED!"

That being said i've not played it yet so who knows it could be good...just judging this based on how it looks. :P

Calista · 2013-10-24, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Illtempered

As a staunch supporter of this game early on, these devs continue to amaze me with how little they understand their own game. Like the 3 minute cap timer didn't make biolabs easy enough to take?

Unf#$%ingbelievable

I'm starting to think that things like this are being done for the PS4 attention deficit crowd. If they aren't running and gunning every second they just lose interest and logoff.

Rat · 2013-10-24, 05:27 PM

[QUOTE=Hmr85;947497]They are going to have to make those shields below the Bio impassable by shield diffused Sundys or Harrassers.

Might be fun farming vehicles as they come thru the shield.

Wargrim · 2013-10-24, 05:28 PM

Just watching a video of this change is enough to make me ask the person that is responsible for this change... on what kind of drugs are you???

This is the single most retarded base design i have seen in PS2 so far, and that is saying a lot for a game that has some of the worst base designs i have ever seen in any game ever.

I mean seriously? You have to walk up a long set of stairs, and through TWO teleporters JUST TO LEAVE A SPAWN ROOM? Seriously????

Only to enter into a spawncamp heaven killzone without cover? IF you do not get vehicle - spawn - camp - killed even before reaching the inside of the Biolab BY VEHICLES YOU CAN NOT SEE BEFORE STEPPING THROUGH THE FIRST TELEPORTER, AND CAN NOT AVOID BECAUSE THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE ROUTE???

Have you ever though about the idea, that if you want to increase the distance / walking time to the objectives for the defenders, said distance and walking time should be OUTSIDE of the spawn room/area, and not inside where there is either ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENING or you get VEHICLE SPAWNCAMPED BEHIND A TELEPORTER???

The ONLY positive thing i can interpret into this is the potential to redo it again. Scrap the big spawn room completely. Use the won space to make some cool changes. Let defenders spawn in the small room as it is now, but add cover around it so it is not a deathtrap / spawncamp heaven. If you think the defenders have too short of a walk, move the control points closer to the entrance points of attackers. Use the won space by removing the big spawn to move buildings / change layouts around, if you need it to make the new locations for the control points more fun places for fights.

OR JUST KEEP THE OLD DESIGN THAT IS MASSIVELY SUPERIOR TO THIS CRAP, even when it is severely flawed combined with the current the lattice implementation, meaning you only attack through one or at most 2 teleporters, when the really old system allowed you to capture all outposts and then push through 3 teleporters, the best version of Biolabs we ever had.

This change is downright insulting, it is that stupid. Case in point? This layout makes so little sense, you actually have to paint big yellow arrows on the floor to explain HOW TO LEAVE A SPAWN ROOM.

This change should never make its way to life in the current form.

AThreatToYou · 2013-10-24, 05:36 PM

This is it. PS2 is dieing.

The sentence has just been stamped. We're on our way to the gas chamber, through however many months of prison...

Omnimon · 2013-10-24, 06:03 PM

If they wanted make defending tougher ( without giving attackers a huge advantage ) , as suggested before they should move the defender spawn point AWAY from control / teleporter rooms. Infact the control rooms should be closer to the attacker's shield rooms instead .

This design ? The moment ONE player or two figures out that a harasser / sunderer with shield breaker + whatever AI / AV weapon mounted , could *possibly * halt the defence of an entire base for multiple squads . Those kind of gameplay mechanics are something that needs to be shifted AWAY from . ( ditto with squad leader / spawn drop pod mechanics versus sunderers, the power one person has to alter an entire battle easily , its too much and too abuseable given that players take time to render after the drop pod hits the ground , meanwhile they're free to do anything for more then a few seconds...... ) .

We saw that early on with liberators ( and the coffins of death those spawns were ) , why introduce that again , but with harassers + sunderers ?

The devs who designed this, do they even play their own game ? I don't know if bases are intended to be defended at all or not at this point .

Bobby Shaftoe · 2013-10-24, 06:03 PM

I think it's getting obvious that the PSU community is going to have to type up specifications for every single aspect of the game (or what you want changed) and go into extreme detail (ie placement of specific cover objects) for the SOE guys to follow it step by step, because they appear to not have a clue.