PS2 Business Model - Page 3

artifice · 2011-07-11, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Gandhi

If I had to choose I'd go for a subscription model set at $10 a month. Planetside is unique, there's really no other MMO like it and for that reason I think it can still do well with a pay to play model.

You mean like Tribes Universe? PlanetSide 2 is going to have some direct competition.

Originally Posted by Gandhi

F2P would obviously bring in more players, but that doesn't necessarily mean more profit and it definitely doesn't mean a better community. I'd also be dead set against a cash shop that offers anything beyond cosmetic items, and I think that's a feeling shared by a lot of people considering the ruckus EVE's cash shop caused when it wasn't made clear that it would be vanity items only.

I am completely against a cash shop with more than cosmetic items as well, but I am realistic. SOE is notorious for their pay to win cash shop in their P2P game Everquest 2.

Volw · 2011-07-11, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Wakken

I thought it was confirmed that GW2 wont have any instances? Atleast not for every zone like gw1 had. (open world and citys etc)

And does it really matter anyways? We're talking about the business model and what people prefer/want in PS2?

Question is how many players per zone is supported until it gets instanced.

PS2 is aimed to support 1000 players per zone.

What's the number on GW2? We don't know. What's the exact business model of GW2? We don't know exactly, but probably F2P model, with expansions and cash store instead of a typical F2P cash store. Which, end of the day, is EXACTLY the same.

Wakken · 2011-07-11, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Volw

Question is how many players per zone is supported until it gets instanced.

PS2 is aimed to support 1000 players per zone.

What's the number on GW2? We don't know. What's the exact business model of GW2? We don't know exactly, but probably F2P model, with expansions and cash store instead of a typical F2P cash store. Which, end of the day, is EXACTLY the same.

Yeah probably yes, I'd bet they're doing the same as for GW1. And that is the business model I personally would prefer

Gandhi · 2011-07-11, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by artifice

You mean like Tribes Universe? PlanetSide 2 is going to have some direct competition.

I don't know, I haven't seen much hard info on TU beyond supporting 100 players on the same map. We'll have to wait and see if it can offer the same gameplay Planetside does.

2coolforu · 2011-07-11, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Wakken

Yeah probably yes, I'd bet they're doing the same as for GW1. And that is the business model I personally would prefer

So we can either have a monthly sub or an item store, I don't want planetside to turn into TF2 'World of Hats' and you are talking about SOE who have a history of making Pay 2 Win item stores. Monthly sub is exactly the same, the same money goes in (in fact we could end up paying less than if we were bombarded by hats, shop items and pay to play expansions) and SOE gets a constant stream of money.

As for dedi's being cheap I play with a group of about 600 people, our yearly dedi server fees go into 5 figures and that's on simple to run games like CoD although I suppose we do have ARMA servers.

artifice · 2011-07-11, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Volw

Question is how many players per zone is supported until it gets instanced.

PS2 is aimed to support 1000 players per zone.

What's the number on GW2? We don't know. What's the exact business model of GW2? We don't know exactly, but probably F2P model, with expansions and cash store instead of a typical F2P cash store. Which, end of the day, is EXACTLY the same.

Well, there are three teams in the GW2 World vs World PVP. Each team is going to have several hundred players. Several means more than 2. So that is at least 900 players. As I said before, some of their dynamic events scale up to 100 players. An example is the Shatterer that many have already got to experience. It is just one huge raid boss mob in a small area of a very large zone.

They also openly said that their cash shop is purely cosmetic in nature. Such as unlocking color dyes, item appearance swapping items, as well as things like more character slots.

Originally Posted by 2coolforu

So we can either have a monthly sub or an item store, I don't want planetside to turn into TF2 'World of Hats' and you are talking about SOE who have a history of making Pay 2 Win item stores. Monthly sub is exactly the same, the same money goes in (in fact we could end up paying less than if we were bombarded by hats, shop items and pay to play expansions) and SOE gets a constant stream of money.

As for dedi's being cheap I play with a group of about 600 people, our yearly dedi server fees go into 5 figures and that's on simple to run games like CoD although I suppose we do have ARMA servers.

If SOE is going to sell pay to win items, they will do it regardless of whether they charge you a monthly fee.

2coolforu · 2011-07-11, 08:50 AM

Why would they? Why would they have an item shop for revenue if there is a monthly sub, you suggested a cash shop as an alternative and I'm saying Pay 2 Win items are not worth the loss of monthly subs. Haven't you been looking at PC Gaming news recently and the huge uproar at cash shops in EVE and CCP's plans to bring in Pay 2 Win items and the internal memos.

Volw · 2011-07-11, 08:52 AM

*sigh*

Again. What is the difference between the two:

1) Cash store which sells 'better' weapons.

2) Expansion pack which has better weapons in it.

2coolforu · 2011-07-11, 08:56 AM

In fact SOE have been hinting that they like EVE Online's method which is to have a monthly sub along with regular large updates that are basically free 'expansions'. The method works really well and they even updated and overhauled the graphics engine - this seems to be exactly what SOE are planning so I would much prefer to have a monthly fee and then have hats and expansions added for free as they have already been covered by my monthly payments.

Wakken · 2011-07-11, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by 2coolforu

So we can either have a monthly sub or an item store, I don't want planetside to turn into TF2 'World of Hats' and you are talking about SOE who have a history of making Pay 2 Win item stores. Monthly sub is exactly the same, the same money goes in (in fact we could end up paying less than if we were bombarded by hats, shop items and pay to play expansions) and SOE gets a constant stream of money.

As for dedi's being cheap I play with a group of about 600 people, our yearly dedi server fees go into 5 figures and that's on simple to run games like CoD although I suppose we do have ARMA servers.

I am just saying my opinion on the matter. It doesnt have to be hats, it can be skins, effects, armor patterns, doodads to add to your armor/weapon etc.

A few examples I will pick off my mind.

Different armor patterns, stripes, camo patern etc.
Different colour on bullet tracers
Doodads on your armor
doodads on your weapons, maybe a smilie face? (I'd want that one)

there is tons of cosmetic stuff that wouldnt really ruin the game feeling if you put some thought into it.

And I'm not sure I agree with some of this "f2p community is a worse community". It doesnt really have too. Everyone who have money to pay a monthy fee is great guys? And all who prefer not paying a monthy fee are idiots? Dont really follow that logic

artifice · 2011-07-11, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Gandhi

I don't know, I haven't seen much hard info on TU beyond supporting 100 players on the same map. We'll have to wait and see if it can offer the same gameplay Planetside does.

It is supposed to have both a battle arena-type PVP with a 100 players and a persistent world that is based on territory control.

Another one coming out is Line of Defense.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02...-a-new-mmofps/

Originally Posted by 2coolforu

Why would they? Why would they have an item shop for revenue if there is a monthly sub, you suggested a cash shop as an alternative and I'm saying Pay 2 Win items are not worth the loss of monthly subs. Haven't you been looking at PC Gaming news recently and the huge uproar at cash shops in EVE and CCP's plans to bring in Pay 2 Win items and the internal memos.

Because it is SOE and they do stuff like that. Take a look at Everquest 2's cash shop. Not their F2P version, their P2P cash shop that predated it.

Gandhi · 2011-07-11, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Volw

*sigh*

Again. What is the difference between the two:

1) Cash store which sells 'better' weapons.

2) Expansion pack which has better weapons in it.

If the expansions are sold separately then I don't think there is one, and I think the paid expansions offering better weapons were a big part of what killed Planetside. People just don't like pay to win systems, especially if they're put on top of a monthly subscription.

artifice · 2011-07-11, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Volw

*sigh*

Again. What is the difference between the two:

1) Cash store which sells 'better' weapons.

2) Expansion pack which has better weapons in it.

You've never bought an expansion pack for an MMORPG? Expansions exist regardless if it is P2P or B2P.

Volw · 2011-07-11, 09:11 AM

@Gandhi, yep, it's directed at artifice who doesn't seem to get the fact GW1 had cash shop camouflaged into an expansion.

Originally Posted by artifice

You've never bought an expansion pack for an MMORPG?

I'm asking you what's the difference.

You either pay for an item in the cash shop OR you go and buy an expansion pack. What is the difference?

It's exactly the same business model. You are encouraged to spend more money on a game in order to maintain (or gain) competitive advantage. It doesn't matter if it's via cash store, expansion packs or whatever else.

artifice · 2011-07-11, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Volw

@Gandhi, yep, it's directed at artifice who doesn't seem to get the fact GW1 had cash shop camouflaged into an expansion.

I'm asking you what's the difference.

You either pay for an item in the cash shop OR you go and buy an expansion pack. What is the difference?

It's exactly the same business model. You are encouraged to spend more money on a game in order to maintain (or gain) competitive advantage. It doesn't matter if it's via cash store, expansion packs or whatever else.

Ultimately the difference is that you need to play the content to obtain the better items. There isn't instant gratification of just buying an uber weapon and having it appear in your mail or inventory. It has been that way since Ultima Online. It is just the fact of life for MMO games.