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View Poll Results: Is the resource limit needed?
No, the resource income rates will balance it. 29 42.03%
Yes, because there will be "resourceless" playstyles. 40 57.97%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-04-19, 01:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Vamp Hunter
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Re: Balancing Factor: Resource Storage Limit


I think there should be no cap and instead the spawning of vehicles should be regulated by having them start at a low resource price and then the more that are spawned in a short time the higher the price goes.
This would cause the number spawned at a time to self regulate.
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Old 2012-04-19, 02:33 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
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Re: Balancing Factor: Resource Storage Limit


Originally Posted by Pollo Jack View Post
Hold up. Have they said these sidegrades will have to be purchased every time you pull a loadout? I was under the impression you pay to unlock it once.

[...]

And what if you have almost enough for your loadout? Do I have to spend five minutes every time I am at the terminal deciding what to put back? Sure, it can just not give me anything saying I have insufficient funds but I will still have some funds and I want to use my favorite weapon.
Specifically grenades and implants and max units were mentioned as costing resources. (I can't remember what he said about C4). Also I don't remember anything regarding stock weapons, but sidegrades cost resources. So if you want say a grenade launcher attachment you use resources.

Also regarding trying to pull a loadout or favorite that you lack resources for I'd imagine just says "insufficient funds". You'll probably see the resource cost next to loadouts and vehicle favorites when you choose to spawn them? Speculating though.
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Old 2012-04-19, 02:11 PM   [Ignore Me] #3
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Re: Balancing Factor: Resource Storage Limit


Originally Posted by Sirisian View Post
Specifically grenades and implants and max units were mentioned as costing resources. (I can't remember what he said about C4). Also I don't remember anything regarding stock weapons, but sidegrades cost resources. So if you want say a grenade launcher attachment you use resources.

Also regarding trying to pull a loadout or favorite that you lack resources for I'd imagine just says "insufficient funds". You'll probably see the resource cost next to loadouts and vehicle favorites when you choose to spawn them? Speculating though.
I understand that method. I assumed it would be similar to the LoL style. You use resources to unlock the weapon or sidegrade once and then you can use it whenever.
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Click here to go to the next VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-04-19, 02:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
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Re: Balancing Factor: Resource Storage Limit


Unlock-once occurs through the cert system, and by some things that can be purchased either with certain resources or station cash in the store.

They have to give things recurring costs or resources become useless. If they're just used for unlocking you'll have no desire to get more resources as soon as you've unlocked everything you care about. By making them cost resources to acquire they can both balance the upgrades/vehicles and keep resources relevant throughout the lifetime of the game.
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Old 2012-04-19, 02:31 PM   [Ignore Me] #5
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Re: Balancing Factor: Resource Storage Limit


No caps please.

Resource caps punish success and encourage not playing.

We should be able to save up as many resources as we can earn. I want to see major offensives where loads of resources are being spent all at once on huge numbers of tanks and aircraft. I want to see long-term view economic warfare, with guerrilla tactics used to wear away the opposition's equipment in an attempt to prevent them from earning back the resources spent on that huge pile of hardware, thereby giving their side an average armor-over-time advantage.

Last edited by Fenrys; 2012-04-19 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 2012-04-19, 02:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
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Re: Balancing Factor: Resource Storage Limit


Originally Posted by Fenrys View Post
Resource caps punish success and encourage not playing.
I believe it was hinted that paying real money might allow you to earn resources off-line. So what you said actually has two sides. Resource caps don't punish success at all. If you are successful you can pull sidegrades and vehicles. They just remove the incentive to horde.

I'm imagining the game as more casual. You get in play with vehicles for an hour and kill some dudes then logoff. That is you aren't sitting around hording unlimited resources for a later time, nor should the game encourage that. Resource caps directly limit that feeling. As soon as you see for instance that a maximum is set at say 1000 and it costs 500 for a stock tank you know if you want a tank just get it. You can delay that purchase until you need it, but not forever unless you want to waste resources. It promotes players to spend and have fun.
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Click here to go to the next VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-04-19, 02:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
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Re: Balancing Factor: Resource Storage Limit


From reading this thread I think it's obvious that not enough resource information has been presented for the general PS2 fans to have a firm understanding of how it works. Having a discussion about a cap or no cap is an exercise in frustration when the people having the discussion don't know how the system works and thus can't understand the true impact of having or not having a cap.

I know Sirisian and myself have been watching every word about resources intently and have a firm understanding of it, but I'm not sure how many others do.

I hope we get a Territory Control week sometime soon that explains the basic mechanics of how territory control works at a micro and macro level and then following that a Resources week where all the resources are described, how they're used, how players interact with resources, and how they are acquired. Territory Control and Resources appear to be the largest source of confusion about the game.
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Old 2012-04-19, 04:37 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: Balancing Factor: Resource Storage Limit


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
From reading this thread I think it's obvious that not enough resource information has been presented for the general PS2 fans to have a firm understanding of how it works. Having a discussion about a cap or no cap is an exercise in frustration when the people having the discussion don't know how the system works and thus can't understand the true impact of having or not having a cap.

I know Sirisian and myself have been watching every word about resources intently and have a firm understanding of it, but I'm not sure how many others do.

I hope we get a Territory Control week sometime soon that explains the basic mechanics of how territory control works at a micro and macro level and then following that a Resources week where all the resources are described, how they're used, how players interact with resources, and how they are acquired. Territory Control and Resources appear to be the largest source of confusion about the game.
The question of the cap is rather simple - AFK farmers or not.

Because AFK farmers are not bad at all, especially considering we will most likely not have means to transfer resources between players, if they do not affect anything but their own resource gain.

HOWEVER... it is assumed that without the sancs to be afk in, those AFK farmers, putting something heavy on "move forward" button will not let people who actually wanna play in.
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This is the last VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-04-19, 04:39 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
Malorn
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Re: Balancing Factor: Resource Storage Limit


Originally Posted by NewSith View Post
The question of the cap is rather simple - AFK farmers or not.

Because AFK farmers are not bad at all, especially considering we will most likely not have means to transfer resources between players, if they do not affect anything but their own resource gain.

HOWEVER... it is assumed that without the sancs to be afk in, those AFK farmers, putting something heavy on "move forward" button will not let people who actually wanna play in.
Thank you for illustrating my point that lack of understanding leads to erroneous conclusions.

It's far more than just AFK farmers. You can read my previous posts in this thread and Sirisian's for more details.
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Old 2012-04-19, 02:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
Adeon Hawkwood
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Re: Balancing Factor: Resource Storage Limit


In many ways I would like to see no-cap (or at least an extremely high nigh-unreachable cap) since that would allow for meaningful resource trading based on supply and demand and hoarding resources against times of scarcity.

However in practice I think a cap for resources makes sense. You'll still get AFK resource farmers but it will at least somewhat help to limit them and mean that the players involved are checking in more frequently. Additionally very few MMOs manage to make a truly balanced in-game economy and a moderate resource cap helps to alleviate the need to do so. While it would be nice if the resource rate was perfectly balanced it is extremely unlikely to be so and honestly I'd rather have the devs focusing on the more important parts of gameplay.
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Old 2012-04-19, 10:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
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Re: Balancing Factor: Resource Storage Limit


I think some confusion may stem from the fact that some things require purchasing in more than one way.

For example, if I want to use a grenade launcher attachment for my rifle, I may have to spend cert point to unlock that option. Cert points are gained by leveling up through gameplay, and from what I have gathered will probably be more like Tribes Ascends experience system than PS1's cert system.

Now that I have spent those cert points (or payed real money in the cash shop), I never have to unlock that grenade launcher attachment again. It is always unlocked.

However if I actually want to USE it, I may have to pay some resources. Resources don't unlock things, they allow you access to things.

It's been mentioned several times already, but the tech plant/MBT example from the first game is really the closest analogy we have. It's like a much more varied version of that, with more variables in the form of different resources and a lot more equipment that requires them.

Bottom line though, this system will still be significantly different from PS1 and the tech plants. Losing a resource will not instantly deny you access to specific equipment, although depending on how it is balanced you may lose access shortly after.

We know resources will be used to incentivise capturing or defending specific territory. We know that we will never have more than we know what to do with of any given resource. All of this indicates not only that there will be some sort of cap or other limiting factor, but that such a limit is essential to balancing the game model they are developing.

Obviously until we get our hands on beta, the devs will always know better than us. I have enough trust that they will get the system pretty close to where it needs to be, since this is much more of an economic side of the game than a skill based gameplay side which can be harder to get right without real world testing.

The only reason I hope for something like a soft cap is that it can still be easily just as balanced as a hard cap, while being potentially much more dynamic and interesting. In my experience, having a more dynamic system makes things more fun and interesting in most situations. I want Planetside 2 to be easy to get into and mess around with for new players, but as deep as possible for those who want to put the time in.
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Old 2012-04-19, 10:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
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Re: Balancing Factor: Resource Storage Limit


Uh oh, another understanding of how it works. I agree, we need a territory control themed week

Not to confuse any points I may have made earlier, but given that it was said early on that you could spend a year training up all of the aspects on a single vehicle and also still going on the notion that some type of resource can be put towards increasing skills, I'm hopeful that the reason that you won't have so many resources that you don't know what to do with them is because of the sheer multitude of options available for spending them as opposed to personal resource scarcity.

Wouldn't that be more fun?

Last edited by Soothsayer; 2012-04-19 at 10:21 PM. Reason: one typo & "personal resource scarcity"
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