As a Mag I will die to a Vanguard 4 out of 5 times in a 1v1... - Page 3

Mastachief · 2013-07-11, 01:47 PM

Someone just save us all some time and slap the OP. The vanguard is statistically the worst tank simples the sheild is a gimmick laughed at by strikers and vulcans. Give me a quick and agile tank any day. Right now the lightning is the best nc tank.

MrMak · 2013-07-11, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mastachief

Someone just save us all some time and slap the OP. The vanguard is statistically the worst tank simples the sheild is a gimmick laughed at by strikers and vulcans. Give me a quick and agile tank any day. Right now the lightning is the best nc tank.

Now you are just being silly.

igster · 2013-07-11, 07:22 PM

I actually think all three tanks are pretty balanced to be honest. All three tanks are dangerous in certain situations and weak in others. Vanguard up close slugging it out and with certed shield will beat most. Don't get up close.
Locked down prowler even 1/2 will give you trouble if you've not taken account of them and they flank you unexpectedly.
Magrider's are still the class act they always have been when driven smartly.

Properly equipped and driven by a good crew - all the tanks will have good fairly even battles. Most outcomes are determined by the experience of the crew not the vehicle that they are in.

Chances are most of the time now in a tank (any faction) you'll die to
- a good crew getting a jump on you
- imbalanced situations like
- a hacked wall turret near a base
- sneaky engineer setting up a snarky turret
- a wolf pack team swarming you with a co-ordinated armor or air column
- the ever present unchallenged ESF dominance.
- snidey tank mines

Overall it's in a very good place right now. Lots of people pulling strong tanks between bases and having good fights without a great deal of imbalance.

The only thing that I think may be a little strong is the Vulcan on a harasser. Would be interesting to see the stats between enforcer/saron/Vulcan harassers in anti vehicle combat.

The harasser has really given the armour game another dimension which I welcome.

Ogre · 2013-07-12, 03:07 AM

To the topic starter:

I drive a vanguard, but my biggest problem is C4 and Mines. After a while I figured out that being near places where infantry can sneak up on me is a poor idea. While I personally enjoy getting up close and personal, it is not viable for me so I had to change it up alot.

The mag rider could benefit from a bit of love, but each faction has its pros and cons. Your maxes have ZOE, ours have a shield that stops us from attacking. Point to vanu. Each ability has it's uses, but can be trumped in a certain sitaution. The devs seem to look at the entire faction when it comes to balance, and in certain areas they accelerate over one another. That doesn't mean its a guaranteed win, but you now have to plan out how you fight it out.

I'd actually like to see what you roll with, as far as main/ secondary weapon, certs, etc. I think the community could come up with some solid builds and advice if your mission is to "remove vanguard".

Shamrock · 2013-07-12, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by MrMak

I like how you make 0 mention of the fact that a Magrider can use the magburer to easily get away or s\circle around to the vuneralbe side of any tank.

The Vanguard is slow and has poor accleration which also hinders it's hill climbing capabilatios. Im pretty sure you CAN get away or dodge.

You want the vanguard shield to have a downside? fine. Come up with one for the Magburner as well.

Running Magburner instead of smoke to break locks is a seriously bad idea (unless you enjoy dying in under a minute) in most armour fights, maybe less so against NC, but very few people swap out load-outs according to what faction they are facing.

Some people can still make the Magrider work fairly well, but I mostly see a lot of stock mags getting chewed up. Personally I swapped to using a lightning months ago.

Assist · 2013-07-12, 06:39 AM

It's amazing the misinformation about vehicles. For knowing so much about ESF's and MBT's as some of you claim, you would think we'd get some solid information statistics out of this discussion!

Truth is the Magrider isn't supposed to win 1v1 with any MBT, it has a fixed turret and the other two do not. The Magrider advantage is range, burst speed, and most importantly positioning in fights. It's made for farming infantry, if you want to kill enemy vehicles and you're a VS player just get a buddy and use lancers(severely underrated weapon).

The ESF's are so similar now I don't understand why people argue their differences. Personally, as a primary VS player, I prefer the Mosquito. However, the Reaver was buffed up to par with the other ESF's a few updates ago and the Scythe, if lacking at all, is not that far behind the Mosquito.
This is just another example of why SoE cannot balance three factions without making them all the same, as someone has said in the past it's no longer Empire Specific Fighter, it's Everyones Stock Fighters. As they are damn near identical now in almost every way in terms of manueverability, speed, and firepower.

(Just for example, since I pointed it out. The Reaver is the fastest overall ESF because of the afterburners, but the Mosquito is the fastest non-afterburner. If you average out the speeds over the same distance[long enough to include 2 runs of afterburners], the Reaver is overall faster in average speed than the Scythe with the Mosquito lagging behind in 3rd)

AThreatToYou · 2013-07-12, 09:26 AM

I knew they were similar, but not that similar. I wish they were more different, after we introduced an NS fighter, truth be told.

What IS absurdly different for them all is their lateral and vertical profile. The Reaver has the fattest one by far. That's enough to make it the worst.

Mustakrakish · 2013-07-13, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Vernei

...to an experienced and highly certed Vanguard driver.

... and how many "experienced and highly certed" Vanguard drivers do you come across, exactly?

If they're few and far between, then I don't really see why the Vanguard Shield ought to get nerfed for everyone because a handful of players invested the time and certs to become good with it.

If they seem fairly common to you, then that's a big indicator that you're simply not as good as you seem to think you are. In that case, the Vanguard Shield shouldn't be getting nerfed to compensate for your lack of skill with the Magrider.

How difficult is it to kill a shielded Vanguard that isn't being driven by an "experienced and highly certed" driver?

The only conclusion I can draw here is that you're not really playing to the Magrider's strengths (i.e. range, maneuverability, main gun stability) very well if the shield is such an insurmountable obstacle for you.

igster · 2013-07-13, 06:28 AM

There seem to be many different strategies for tanking... there isn't a cookie cutter build I suspect it's personal preference.

Funnily enough - our magrider setup is radar (not smoke or magburner), halberd (over saron) and FPC.

We focus on farming armour columns and not infantry. The alpha strike of the halberd gives it really good punch at range where you should be engaging targets. We do know other drivers who like the saron for its accuracy and versatility.. but my preference is the halberd. Once you're used to the trajectory it's really strong.

If you have a smart driver who uses terrain to break locks the radar gives you a massive advantage in dealing with HAs and Light Assaults trying to be sneaky. It even helps with stealth armour and harassers.

We used smoke for a very long time and thought it was indispensable - its really good - but if you can achieve similar results in other ways - the radar is a great feature.

I can honestly say we rarely get killed by C4 these days since we switched to using radar. It also is a big benefit when dealing with infantry in and around bases.

Oh and we rarely have trouble with any type of tank in particular.

Magrider > all the tanks.

Osskscosco · 2013-07-13, 12:57 PM

Shield, enough said.

Just don't try to 1v1 one.

SternLX · 2013-07-13, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by MrMak

I like how you make 0 mention of the fact that a Magrider can use the magburer to easily get away or s\circle around to the vuneralbe side of any tank.

1) Using Magburner means you have to put your vulnerable soft and squishy ass end towards the enemy. Or the very least a side and portion of rear if choosing a diagonal escape vector.
2) A tracked vehicle can rotate it's main body to keep it's rear away from a Circle strafing Magrider.

You want the vanguard shield to have a downside? fine. Come up with one for the Magburner aswell.

Again, the downside to using Magburner is pointing your ass at the enemy to get away. I could see this as a valid argument if Magburner accelerated us in any direction chosen on the X plane.

The best solution I can think of and I have mentioned it during Beta(which fell on deaf ears)since we can't rotate the main cannon separate of the main body like the Tracked MBT's is to allow the Magrider to have the same top speed in reverse as our forward speed.

One of the main points by the OP is that Vanguards can turn and run at full speed while keeping their main cannon(or both weapons if 2 manning it) on the Enemy. Magrider can only hope to get behind some kind of cover quickly and then turn around to bring it's main to bear. I've been gunned down by fleeing Vannies with Shields up on more than a few occasions in the beginning. I learned my lesson so I don't bother chasing them any more.

Osskscosco · 2013-07-14, 01:14 PM

A 1/2 vanguard with shield is one thing, but a 2/2 vs any 2/2 tanks will always win. In the duration of the shield the vanguard can drop you to 50% or less then you can start shooting the most heavily armored tank in the game.

Or you can magburner away, while you will surely get 2 hits in the ass and die. Or prowlers can deploy to increase dps against an invulnerable tank and die.

Perfectly balanced!

EVILoHOMER · 2013-07-15, 02:49 AM

Still better than the Prowler, you have to hit twice to get max damage and most the time you'll only hit the once, especially over rough terrain.

Baneblade · 2013-07-15, 05:45 AM

At least the Prowler can do half damage in that situation... the rest of us miss 100%.

War Barney · 2013-07-15, 05:55 AM

I think he made the title wrong, he meant to say *when I fight a vanguard in a mag I win 4/5 times* after all the mag rider is so manoeuvrable and doesn't get hindered by small rocks like other tanks so its pretty hard to hit if the drive is good. If you try to sit still and slug it out sure you're going to lose, if you play smart and dodge you will win almost every fight.