Your thoughts on the "Ammo" Patch? (2-18-4) - Page 3

BadAsh · 2004-02-19, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by BigFreak

I'd say atm the lasher's the best HA weapon. I can't see any disadvantages it now; it rapes at every range. Close range, just hold fire, longer range (where NC and TR's HA weapons have no chance whatsoever), you can aim a little and shoot. This is from observed/felt experiences, I haven't used any since the patch, so I can't give a nonbiased view, but it seems pretty damned solid weapon now.

The Lasher is a good solid weapon now. I like that with it you can hang with JH and MCG users and it's also a good against groups and even MAX units. So it's a nice universal weapon.

However, it still does not have the TTK of the JH, so if he gets in close (not too hard to do in most situations) then he has an edge. And the MCG is still better at medium range because the Lasher orbs are slow. Lash damage is ok, but direct hits are where your killing power is.

Fenrys · 2004-02-19, 11:18 AM

Against a circle-strafing surgile inside 1m, you need to lead them so far with the lasher that they actually leave your screen. You're almost shooting directly behind you, hoping that they continue to move in the same direction.

Queensidecastle · 2004-02-19, 11:53 AM

So far my thoughts are this:

Since the Decimator was moved to AV I have had to find another way to kill MAXs because I am not willing to give up any of my current certs. The only one I even could give up and remain an effective combat soldier would be assault buggy and that is not an option. Being able to drive Skyguard/Marauder in Rexo is an extremely powerful thing and results in tower asskickings like no other. So instead I reconfigured my inventories to take advantage of the new Rocklet ammo buff. So far I am very impressed. I replaced my big inventory hole where the decimator used to be with a rocklet and some ammo boxes. So far the Rocklet is proving to be a very suitable MAX killer and I did not have to give up my precious Thumper. Also a box of frags now is very effective against MAXs as well.

Now, you certainly cannot own MAXs like before the SA nerf, but its a hell of a lot better than carrying AP ammo and still remains the most versatile weapons group. Rocklet and thumper at medium distances > MA by a longshot and now with the ammo buff you can switch to a box of frags, or Rocklet if you need to kill a MAX

TheN00b · 2004-02-19, 12:07 PM

I already posted this is my own thread, but I absolutely love the power of the AV masses to bring down large targets. I might even come to pity those poor tanks in the coming days

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TheRagingGerbil · 2004-02-19, 12:32 PM

The lasher does own. I think it is the easiest of the HA weapons to use. The funnest is the MCG and the most effective is the jackhammer. I get more kills with a looted lasher then I do with my jack. I dunno, I guess I am natural shot.

The problem with the lasher is a few asses complained so a few more asses jumped on the asswagon and soon we have an entire tidal wave of asses complaining. Everyone see's this huge influx of asses and think that the asses must be right so every god forsaken vanu and his mother cert in the Lasher. The asses see everyone carrying a lasher, hence they die to the lasher more, so in their mind it is obviously overpowered. The same damned thing happened when the JH was supposedly uber, same with the Pounder. More recently you have seen this with the huge numbers of "uber" Vanu maxes.

Players cert in what other players complain the most about.

Vis Armata · 2004-02-19, 12:47 PM

I started using the Punisher on my alt, and I was having fun with it. I can carry 200 rounds of 9mm, one box each of plasma and jammer rounds - and still have room for 18 Phoenix rounds. It's great. My primary pilot has a rocklet only, and my ammo capacity went from 24 to 75.

As far as HA...Indoors, the disco inferno is scary, but plasma seems to calm down the dancing. Outdoors, the Vanu are still not doing as well - its still fairly easy to hit a Vanu with a plasma grenade and 9mm bullets. MCGs are the same, obviously.

AV - I've seen plenty of Lancers and Strikers, but they aren't totally dominating the field. I flew yesterday with our air cav unit, but I didn't really run into a lot of Strikers.

Overall, I don't think things are as bad as people think.

Riyu · 2004-02-19, 12:47 PM

90 Sniper bullets in Agile.

All I can say is WOW!

BadAsh · 2004-02-19, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by TheRagingGerbil

Players cert in what other players complain the most about.

I kind of agree and kind of don�t with that statement. Personally, I�ll analyze the pros and cons with the various equipment in the game by testing it myself. When I find things that work well with my style of play then I�ll just simply cert and equip the best combination of available tools to achieve my goals. I think many players do this. Thus, if something is tweaked by the devs then many players try it out to see how effective it is to their style of play and fighting. If they like it they will keep it. If they don�t they won�t.

I think within the next few days you will see a substantial drop off of AV weapons and Lashers. AV in particular as people realize the added ammo capacity is nice, but the TTK was not increased. People will work fine in groups for now simply because of the volume of people trying out the latest �new toy�. Once enough people start getting sick of scoring several hits only to have one of the other AV guys get the kill you will start seeing less of these weapons. You can have 10 people with a Striker defending the base, but only 1 gets the Liberator kill even if all of them hit the target. So that�s 1 happy guy and 9 disappointed Striker wielders. These inflated numbers will trickle off but I think they will remain higher than before. Many were turned off by the combination of weak killing power and low ammo capacity. Now you still have the weak killing power but enough ammo to eventually get the job done.

TheN00b · 2004-02-19, 01:21 PM

BadAsh, I don't particularly agree with the second part of your statement. When you say that getting no kills with AV is not the fun, thats sortof true, but there's two factors that make that possibly invalid if you're NC. First, and this is for all Empires, their is always a possibility of not just you, but your entire squad being those 10 Striker users, in which case you're all happy. Even if only several of your squaddies are working with AV weapons up top, it still means more exp for you. Also, if you're NC, the Pheonix is not only effective in large numbers, but also incredibly fun! I don't know about the Striker and Lancer, but it is totally sweet to be guiding your own missile towards it's target. Good times

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infinite loop · 2004-02-19, 01:49 PM

Overall, I like the patch. I think alot of the changes were much needed. However, I have a HUGE gripe with the nerf to the JH. I am fine with the ammo box change, I'm talking about the quad-shot nerf. I honestly don't give a shit about the balance argument that brought it on.

My view has always been that nerfs are bad, and just piss people off. I don't understand the logic behind them, and still propose buffs to others instead of nerfing. I don't have the best answer necessarily, but I wonder if they even considered another alternative, such as adding a secondary mode to the other HA weapons? What pisses me off the most is the bullshit line from the devs that this has been a bug all along, and they are just now noticing it. Bullshit. Whether or not it was a bug, they didn't notice it until people whined enough about it that they couldn't ignore it. That's just poor customer service, on both sides of who was effected.

Anyway, enough of my ranting. One of my staple playstyles has been removed, and I'm utterly frustrated and pissed off about it. You all can say "hey it's about time you got a nerf" and I'll agree with you. But I'll never understand why any of you ever had to get nerfed in the first place. I'll be logging in to my VS char for the next few days while I settle down. Me likey my lasher/lancer combo!

Queensidecastle · 2004-02-19, 02:06 PM

What pisses me off the most is the bullshit line from the devs that this has been a bug all along, and they are just now noticing it. Bullshit. Whether or not it was a bug, they didn't notice it until people whined enough about it that they couldn't ignore it. That's just poor customer service, on both sides of who was effected.

Thats actually much like what they tried to say about the Decimator being in Special Assault

BigFreak · 2004-02-19, 03:51 PM

My view has always been that nerfs are bad, and just piss people off. I don't understand the logic behind them, and still propose buffs to others instead of nerfing. I don't have the best answer necessarily, but I wonder if they even considered another alternative, such as adding a secondary mode to the other HA weapons?

That's silly balancing; making everything as stupidly powerful as everything. It ruins gameplay having one click kills (see: Flail). It's not fun, it's not tactical, it's not big, and it's not clever.

infinite loop · 2004-02-19, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by BigFreak

That's silly balancing; making everything as stupidly powerful as everything. It ruins gameplay having one click kills (see: Flail). It's not fun, it's not tactical, it's not big, and it's not clever.

Then they NEVER should have had it in the game to begin with. If it hadn't been there for the last 9 months, I wouldn't miss it now. Bad design? Maybe. But regardless, "fixing" it now doesn't mean it should just be accepted, and make people happy. Nerfs will never be justified.

Warborn · 2004-02-19, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by infinite loop

Then they NEVER should have had it in the game to begin with. If it hadn't been there for the last 9 months, I wouldn't miss it now. Bad design? Maybe. But regardless, "fixing" it now doesn't mean it should just be accepted, and make people happy. Nerfs will never be justified.

The game's balance is more important than your attachment to a broken weapon.

Vick · 2004-02-19, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by BadAsh

Apparently you don't duel. Know why no one uses a Lasher in a duel? Because they get their asses handed to them. Players with a Punusher can consistantly beat down a Lasher in a duel. Good players will dodge and strafe in an irregular pattern and be very difficult to hit with every orb, with the MCG and JH it's much easier to hit in that setting... so, you miss a few times, they don't = Dead Lasher 90% of the time.

In the game under normal combat is where the Lasher shines. Rarely will you face someone 1v1 in the open when you see each other at the exact same time... like in a duel. So if you can hit them first you will usually win and the reverse is true. Then there are hallways... lovely lashable hallways... hehe

But to the thread topic spacifically:

This patch owns. I love it.

Wtf? What kinda newb dies to a punisher while he has a lasher?

Lasher is probably the best HA in my opinion, that or MCG. JH is my least favorite, and it really sucks against new rexo, and it sucks if your in rexo, like a double nerf.

Anyway, patch is pretty good except maybe for the to many strikers and the lash inside 5m (you can stand next to an enemy and randomly to kill them, its just silly).