Outfits need to be bigger on Miller

[Rolfski]

Adenn, I personally see FU as one of the oufits on Miller that understand that you either evolve or die out.

[Atomicsys]

Originally Posted by Mastachief

We don't want anymore than 30 guys on TS and we are recruiting with that in mind. Imo that is the most effective number for skilled communicative players.

30 skilled scatterzz on TS omg its roxxx ! i wanna see it !

[Baptist]

I really enjoy Miller as a server for my Outfit, NC on Miller has a very close relationship for the most part, all the Outfits communicate well and in some cases even break down language barriers to facilitate more co-operation, this closeness has really started to develop more as the game gets older and I really look forward to the future.

The size of NC Outfits isn’t a problem for me, I only worry about my own and let others do the same for theirs, running an Outfit any Outfit takes a lot of work, A LOT, it’s stressful and sometimes frustrating as all hell, but it also has it’s rewards, being that this is a hard Job, the bigger an Outfit is the Harder it is to manage, this sounds like common sense, and it is, but that’s not to say it’s impossible to run a large Outfit organised, it’s Harder! It’s not impossible.

Consortium at the minute has three squads for Op’s sometimes four, I like this size, and I’d burn out if it was any bigger, and as someone else said, you really need good squad leaders and officers, once you have that bedrock everything else becomes much easier.

[bpostal]

Originally Posted by Atomicsys

30 skilled scatterzz on TS omg its roxxx ! i wanna see it !

Now now, MCY isn't just a bunch of Scat MAX users. There's C4 as well!
How do I know? I spent the evening in Allatum. Of memorable note was the LA who got about two dozen kills in one go.
That'll teach us to lockdown.

[Mastachief]

Originally Posted by bpostal

Now now, MCY isn't just a bunch of Scat MAX users. There's C4 as well!
How do I know? I spent the evening in Allatum. Of memorable note was the LA who got about two dozen kills in one go.
That'll teach us to lockdown.

It always amuses me to see the impact our 4-5 maxes have on the TR and VS, especially so when i consider that any zergfit will be using 10-15 at all times... In fact i'd go as far to say that c4 run probably killed more TR maxes than we had in our tiny 12 man squad.

Splitting into squad channels etc on VOIP ruins the community feel in my experience. Much as Baptist and Thunderhawk have said the 2-3 squad is really the limit before you start to lose effectiveness and the feeling of your community. The issue with having many commanders is that too many chefs spoil the broth and slow you down. Speed is important on miller you gotta move fast before the TR drop their 70%+ pop on you and set about self congratulations in /yell that you initial see and think they are just trolling before you then realise they seriously believe that zerging with a 70%+ pop is an achievement to be applauded........ man the boredom that these TR must feel was illustrated last night in a /yell from some TR "I got one guys i actually got one :-)" competing with 8 other TR for that 1 kill must suck especially when 3-4-5-6 of them die trying.

[diLLa]

Originally Posted by Mastachief

It always amuses me to see the impact our 4-5 maxes have on the TR and VS, especially so when i consider that any zergfit will be using 10-15 at all times... In fact i'd go as far to say that c4 run probably killed more TR maxes than we had in our tiny 12 man squad.

Splitting into squad channels etc on VOIP ruins the community feel in my experience. Much as Baptist and Thunderhawk have said the 2-3 squad is really the limit before you start to lose effectiveness and the feeling of your community. The issue with having many commanders is that too many chefs spoil the broth and slow you down. Speed is important on miller you gotta move fast before the TR drop their 70%+ pop on you and set about self congratulations in /yell that you initial see and think they are just trolling before you then realise they seriously believe that zerging with a 70%+ pop is an achievement to be applauded........ man the boredom that these TR must feel was illustrated last night in a /yell from some TR "I got one guys i actually got one :-)" competing with 8 other TR for that 1 kill must suck especially when 3-4-5-6 of them die trying.

you seem mad

[Mastachief]

Originally Posted by diLLa

you seem mad

Amused, if you read carefully you'll see that i say so.

[Kanum]

What these large outfits don't realize is that with great numbers comes great responsibility. Sure, to your eyes and the eyes of your recruits, you are "winning" in the specific hexes you choose to unload on. However, every time you drop four or five gals on a virtually empty base, you have inadvertently caused loss of territory in other hexes so the net effect is close to zero.

There are times when the troops you zerged a base with would have been better off distributed evenly amongst the zerg. Small outfits bear less of this responsibility as they leave a smaller footprint on population numbers and come with additional benefits like faster deployment.

[Adenn]

Originally Posted by Kanum

What these large outfits don't realize is that with great numbers comes great responsibility. Sure, to your eyes and the eyes of your recruits, you are "winning" in the specific hexes you choose to unload on. However, every time you drop four or five gals on a virtually empty base, you have inadvertently caused loss of territory in other hexes so the net effect is close to zero.

There are times when the troops you zerged a base with would have been better off distributed evenly amongst the zerg. Small outfits bear less of this responsibility as they leave a smaller footprint on population numbers and come with additional benefits like faster deployment.

It's always amusing for me to see that smaller outfits think that they are the only ones who can rapid redeploy (As we say in our outfit) and re-secure territories.

It's also amusing how they assume that a larger outfit sends all it's troops to 1 hex.

Only time you will see a full TR outfit (FU for example) sending X amount of troops until the pop is 60-40% (usually) are Bio lab assaults. Why? Because everyone knows it's impossible to take a bio lab with less attackers then defenders (When equal it can be done but is quite difficult). And this is a good thing because the defenders should have the advantage imo.

[Kanum]

Originally Posted by Adenn

It's always amusing for me to see that smaller outfits think that they are the only ones who can rapid redeploy (As we say in our outfit) and re-secure territories.

It's also amusing how they assume that a larger outfit sends all it's troops to 1 hex.

Only time you will see a full TR outfit (FU for example) sending X amount of troops until the pop is 60-40% (usually) are Bio lab assaults. Why? Because everyone knows it's impossible to take a bio lab with less attackers then defenders (When equal it can be done but is quite difficult). And this is a good thing because the defenders should have the advantage imo.

You may rapidly redeploy for an outfit of your size but those timeframes are gargantuan by a smaller outfit's standards. Not saying it's a leadership thing, it's just a fact when you're coordinating that many people.

This is proven by yesterday's Esamir event when, at the height of prime-time in a triple pop-lock, TR had 11% territory control at one stage. You can "win" any hex you choose, but you lose two hexes behind you.

[jollytraveller]

Originally Posted by Adenn

It's also amusing how they assume that a larger outfit sends all it's troops to 1 hex.

Nah. They only do that after getting farmed for 30 mins.

[bpostal]

Originally Posted by diLLa

you seem mad

Nah, that's just Mastachief's way of giving a backhanded compliment. Emphasis on the backhand.

As to the time spent re-organizing at the warpgate or moving out, that can be drastically reduced just from some training and a bit of organization. I can typically get my platoon, anywhere from two to four squads, loaded up into gals and moving in under thirty seconds from the recall order. Sure, there are times when a couple people don't respond or are slow for whatever reason but with squad deploy and beacons it's a non-issue. The only area that may be a concern is when you're talking about organizing different units such as armor, air and ground. Even then, separating the job up by squads gets people moving out in well under a minute.

I really don't see too much 'zerging', where dozens of people from an outfit will drop all in one area if it's not needed. If it's an issue, that's on the PL level. Not on the outfit level. It's an issue that is dealt with by training.

The main issue with larger units is comms. If the entire platoon is in one channel then yes, comms are going to be an issue and the platoon size should be limited to prevent this (three squads or so seems to be about the max I can handle before my brain starts to melt). I still reject anyone saying that splitting squads into different voice channels hinders the process in any way. Again, that's part of having good SL's.

The ONLY pertinent issue to splitting up voice comms is what Mastachief brought up, it can kinda kill the sense of community. That said, how much community can you have with dozens of people all talking at the same time? Trying to have a conversation while still passing relevant tactical data, while listening to and reacting to orders from the SL or PL...those become impossible. That, to me, ruins the sense of community more than splitting up the platoon. If the squads are split people can still bullshit while having plenty of 'bandwidth' remaining for tactical communication.

Besides, if you don't split the squads up into different channels then good luck trying to split up geographically and still maintain any sense of order.

Also, I think EvilJolly underestimates my ability to get farmed As I've proven I'll sit in the 'rape room' of a biolab for hours if it's the only fight on the server. Some BMC guy was talking about the stupid amounts of repair and revive XP we was getting off of our MAXes. Farming works both ways when you're support.

[Adenn]

Originally Posted by Kanum

You may rapidly redeploy for an outfit of your size but those timeframes are gargantuan by a smaller outfit's standards. Not saying it's a leadership thing, it's just a fact when you're coordinating that many people.

This is proven by yesterday's Esamir event when, at the height of prime-time in a triple pop-lock, TR had 11% territory control at one stage. You can "win" any hex you choose, but you lose two hexes behind you.

The event wasn't yesterday, it was on Saturday. FU didn't even have a squad up yesterday. A perfect example of rapid redeploy on a big outfit's lvl is TE. They took 30 seconds to do it and they aren't 1337 spec-ops 30 man comms.

And as Postal said, it only takes 30 seconds to get a platoon in galaxies. Here is how:
Step 1: Order to redeploy at warpgate and spawn Gals
Step 2: Get in the galaxy

It isn't rocket science to rapid redeploy. As a matter of fact it's one of the most simple things to do in the game. The fact that you are gloating about it...is kinda sad.

[Baptist]

When Consortium runs Op’s we split the guys into different channels, each squad having its own, Squad leaders and PL in command channel, I’ve always enjoyed this aspect of the game, I don’t know you can call me anal, but I like the whole militaristic voice comms procedure that then has to follow this segregation of the Outfit.

The PL gives almost all Orders through a set procedure that’s verified by the SL and passed down, there are problems with this system to be sure, you can’t have everything your own way, Two squads can be standing beside each other in game and not communicate, because inter squad communication goes SLto SL, Prox chat cuts through this to an extent, still a problem.

Squad leaders have to have a tight control on their squad, if not the comms will be filled with chatter about donkeys and goldfish, with the possibility of orders being missed, because I get my guys to roger everything I say, It means I have to repeat myself, If I have to a third time I lose the head, Stress!

A Gobal channel is needed for the PL, to give orders so that all members can hear the PL, this is used for redeploy’s or if I wanna say well done Conz you beat back FU! 

Loss of Community, that I don’t know about, with a 12 man channel system a certain amount of banter can be tolerated during Op’s but if I had my 36 – 48 guys in one channel, I’d be screaming Comms clear every time I wanted to talk, so it’s all about size, that’s not to say we never sit in the one channel, we do when not in op’s just talking about crap, you can’t run full tilt all the time, no one can, it is a game after all, so I feel there is a happy balance here between the two.

[Baptist]

I like talking and hearing my own voice so much I posted it twice.