Class Revamp: LA - Page 3

ColdCheese · 2013-01-29, 07:21 PM

I play mostly LA and HA and having experienced LA from both perspectives I honestly believe they dont need a buff other than increasing NC/TR magazines to 35 rounds from 30. In the hand of an experienced and certed LA player, they can be a very deadly and disruptive force. A good nade and a few well planned shots and quick or lucky pistol rounds if you live that long can easily wipe out a 6 man cap. Seen it and done it many times, not many other classes can pull that off, even maxes can be heard from a mile away. LA can swoop in from any window and have everyone running for the roof, while the ground heavies storm up in the confusion and take then out while theyr scrambling.

Palerion · 2013-01-29, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by ColdCheese

I play mostly LA and HA and having experienced LA from both perspectives I honestly believe they dont need a buff other than increasing NC/TR magazines to 35 rounds from 30. In the hand of an experienced and certed LA player, they can be a very deadly and disruptive force. A good nade and a few well planned shots and quick or lucky pistol rounds if you live that long can easily wipe out a 6 man cap. Seen it and done it many times, not many other classes can pull that off, even maxes can be heard from a mile away. LA can swoop in from any window and have everyone running for the roof, while the ground heavies storm up in the confusion and take then out while theyr scrambling.

Yes, that is an advantage that we are all aware of.

But Light Assault, being the most "mobile" class, should give players normal upward mobility and speed on the ground.

Whether a Light Assault player can have both capabilities at once has yet to be fully discussed, but it's certainly not too much of an advantage for Light Assaults over other classes.

And it makes sense to let them be the speedy class.

Personally, when I choose the guy with the jetpack, I expect to be able to use it to move forward faster, too.

If that can't be done, a speed boost ability would be fine.

ColdCheese · 2013-01-29, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Palerion

Yes, that is an advantage that we are all aware of.

But Light Assault, being the most "mobile" class, should give players normal upward mobility and speed on the ground.

Whether a Light Assault player can have both capabilities at once has yet to be fully discussed, but it's certainly not too much of an advantage for Light Assaults over other classes.

And it makes sense to let them be the speedy class.

Personally, when I choose the guy with the jetpack, I expect to be able to use it to move forward faster, too.

If that can't be done, a speed boost ability would be fine.

both would be overkill, its enough you have to aim up in the air to shoot at them when they are airborne leaving you vulnerable to ground fire, but a speed boost will require you to lead them like an AA turret in an open field where they deserve to be vulnerable since that is not their element.

If you want to get technical, the lack of a missle launcher and heavy gun puts them on even ground weight wise when you factor in the added weight of the jet pack plus fuel, why should they be faster than a heavy and have the ability to reach just about any point on the map as well. Both these abilities at once would make it way too frustrating for ground forces not using HV and make defending tech plant generators an already bigger nightmare than it already is currently.

Whiteagle · 2013-01-29, 09:55 PM

Personally I like the idea of duel wielding...

...Might have even suggested it in the first place back in Beta, I know I discussed it SOMEwhere...

Pistols in this game are AWESOME for close range fighting, and having another pistol isn't so much about having more DPS as it is having an ENTIRE extra pistol's worth of magazines on you.
Really, how could any Light Assault say no to what would essentially be free extra ammunition?

Also, it looks fucking badass!

That said, I don't know about "Speed boosting" jet-packs...
As has been said before, the Icarus pack was removed due to the speed it provided clogging up the system, and the LA does have the Adrenaline Booster to hasten his run speed a bit.

...I don't know, how is this boost really going to work?
Does the MAX dash simply increase running speed or does it literally thrust you forward?
If it's the former, then it should be simple enough to just give the LA the dash gauge right next to his jump-pack gauge while binding the "Use Ability" and "Jump" keys to each exclusively.
The latter, however, is more problematic since it creates "air dashing" Light Assaults... which will frustrate more then a few I can imagine...

Palerion · 2013-01-29, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by ColdCheese

both would be overkill, its enough you have to aim up in the air to shoot at them when they are airborne leaving you vulnerable to ground fire, but a speed boost will require you to lead them like an AA turret in an open field where they deserve to be vulnerable since that is not their element.

If you want to get technical, the lack of a missle launcher and heavy gun puts them on even ground weight wise when you factor in the added weight of the jet pack plus fuel, why should they be faster than a heavy and have the ability to reach just about any point on the map as well. Both these abilities at once would make it way too frustrating for ground forces not using HV and make defending tech plant generators an already bigger nightmare than it already is currently.

The speed boost is not meant to be passive.

We're talking about a quick dash that spends a very large deal of your jetpack fuel.

After that you're back to normal speed.

And I am reinforcing the fact that it could be both or just an either or situation.

I expect LA soldiers would have to choose between the speed or the normal jetpack.

But personally I think it would be effective to make the speed its own kind of jetpack.

One that gives you a quick burst upward, or a quick burst in a direction (most likely forward).

Maybe two bursts and you're out of fuel and have to recharge.

It allows you dodging and speed more than the ability to traverse large structures.

I'm not trying to get technical, and if you really do want to get technical, I can too.

A jetpack's thrust will propell it whichever way it is aimed.

The user could aim it one direction and launch in that direction.

I don't want to be technical though, and am strictly discussing the advantages the classes' abilities.

Furthermore the jetpack and speed ability could be interchangeable (they use the same slot) if it would be overpowered.

As long as it's implemented right, this would be a good feature.

Light Assaults aren't just the sneaky guys, they're the mobile guys.

Mobility includes quickness and speed in combat and the ability to access hard-to-reach areas.

Regardless of whether they can both be available at the same time or not, they should both be available in an at least interchangeable manor.

EDIT:

Whiteagle,

It could really be either.

With the jetpack dash, it would be only a slight lift.

Barely even enough to take your aim off.

I just want to see a direct combat option for light assault, and think being able to knock off an enemy's aim and dodge their attacks with speed would be a nice way to do it.

I mean, as it stands, though we Light Assaults can jump on to buildings, flying is not so much of a combat ability.

After watching the theatrical trailer, of course, you would think that it is, and you would want to play a bit like that light assault guy xD

Most other classes have direct options to kill in combat, whether it be extremely powerful weapons (HA), proximity mines and all kinds of other explosives, traps, etc. (engineer, infiltrator), or a straight up badass assault rifle (Combat Medic), they have some gear that is, well, "geared", towards direct combat and killing.

If the combat jetpacks are a no-go, I still think there needs to be more in terms of direct combat for Light Assaults.

And I really just doubt dual weilding will happen even if it is a good idea. People will, no matter what, associate it with COD.

it's sad how that game has become the comparison point of every other game that comes out.

Whiteagle · 2013-01-29, 10:16 PM

Well if you are going to make it a separate pack, then it'd probably have to be one that applies a good deal of forward thrust and only a little lift.

This would make the LA faster in the air, but not gamebreakingly so, while still allowing him the ability to get vertical if need be.
Short burst would allow him to cover horizontal ground faster and he also wouldn't be as difficult to hit while in mid-air, with the "Rocket-pack's" forward propulsion telegraphing where he's going by which direction he is pointing.

Edit to add:
Well I've never played CoD, so I haven't really been tainted by it's stigma...
That said, I don't think its association with Duel Wielding is that much of a draw back, since MAXes already Duel Wield their weapons and, who knows, maybe they'll just give LA an extra pistol slot or additional magizines for all his weapons.

Palerion · 2013-01-29, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Well if you are going to make it a separate pack, then it'd probably have to be one that applies a good deal of forward thrust and only a little lift.

This would make the LA faster in the air, but not gamebreakingly so, while still allowing him the ability to get vertical if need be.
Short burst would allow him to cover horizontal ground faster and he also wouldn't be as difficult to hit while in mid-air, with the "Rocket-pack's" forward propulsion telegraphing where he's going by which direction he is pointing.

That's the idea.

Severe decrease in the mobility, making it still viable for small things, such as getting onto a small building (1 story), but that's all. In exchange for a forward thrust ability for more combat-oriented gameplay.

This is to ensure that light assault does not become an infiltrator counterpart.

The infiltrator sneaks up on people and kills them silently.

The light assault is more of a spec ops killer, with light and powerful armaments and high mobility. Not a recon class, like the infiltrator, but an agile killer.

Again, I'm trying to get a good selection of improvements to choose from here.

Adrenaline pump could be buffed and become an ability instead of a suit.

Perhaps making it increase strafe speed (ADS and hip) slightly alongside its small sprint bonus, increase the sprint bonus, whatever seems fitting.

Whiteagle · 2013-01-29, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Palerion

That's the idea.

Severe decrease in the mobility, making it still viable for small things, such as getting onto a small building (1 story), but that's all. In exchange for a forward thrust ability for more combat-oriented gameplay.

Actually my idea isn't to decrease mobility as much as shift it more forward.

Unlike the current Jet-pack, when a Light Assault jumps with the "Rocket-pack" he goes only a little ways up but mostly in the direction he's facing.
So instead of flying in whatever direction he wants to go in, he's instead pushed forward every time he uses it.

Hence why I call it a "Rocket-pack"; instead of a harness that directs almost all of it's thrust downward this one would direct most of it behind the guy, shoving him wherever he is pointed as if he was strapped to a rocket-sled.

Originally Posted by Palerion

This is to ensure that light assault does not become an infiltrator counterpart.

The infiltrator sneaks up on people and kills them silently.

The light assault is more of a spec ops killer, with light and powerful armaments and high mobility. Not a recon class, like the infiltrator, but an agile killer.

Ehhh, I'd honestly say BOTH are reconnaissance and sabotage classes, it's just that the Infiltrator's best defense is suppose to be stealth while the Light Assault's is mobility.
As such, I wouldn't mind some kind of volume increase on the Jet-pack's thrusters to make it more noticeable...

Maybe then I could trade that otherwise useless Radar Dart Gun on my Infiltrator for a Grappling-Hook Pistol.

Originally Posted by Palerion

Again, I'm trying to get a good selection of improvements to choose from here.

Adrenaline pump could be buffed and become an ability instead of a suit.

Perhaps making it increase strafe speed (ADS and hip) slightly alongside its small sprint bonus, increase the sprint bonus, whatever seems fitting.

I think the Adrenaline Pump should still be a suit, but like you said it probably could use a buff as well.
That's sort of my thinking behind the Rocket-pack, it doesn't so much give you a speed boost as it much as it changes the Light Assault's flight pattern into something more horizontally oriented, allowing it to be coupled with the Adrenaline Pump suit to maximize mobility.
So a Light Assault could have BOTH, but in exchange he'd be a rather Fragile Speeder better for crossing open ground and jumping from rooftop to rooftop instead of someone who could jump up or down really high.

AThreatToYou · 2013-01-30, 12:03 AM

You know, health concerns on Auraxis are bar-none because you're immortal. Why isn't everyone pumped full of nasty drugs (stim paks)? Not any class, but every class.

...

but then again we can just assume that they are and that's how they can still stand after being shot.

Rothnang · 2013-01-30, 12:58 AM

On Auraxis what clothes you wear determines what skills you have.

Palerion · 2013-01-30, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Ehhh, I'd honestly say BOTH are reconnaissance and sabotage classes, it's just that the Infiltrator's best defense is suppose to be stealth while the Light Assault's is mobility.

Wow...

I don't feel like Light Assault is supposed to be a reconnaissance class at all.

I was under the impression that Light Assault was made to kill. A lot.

Like a heavy assault with less defense and firepower but more mobility to compensate.

It seems fitting, being an assault class. They should have a similar job of pulling lots of kills.

One just plows through the front door and the other slips through the back door.

If this is not the case I think there needs to be some clarification.

I wouldn't choose to play Light Assault if it was a recon class.