FPS... what should we expect? - Page 3

Sputty · 2003-01-06, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
What the hell, I've got a question that could work out on here. I've found a oem 9700 pro, and it says the only dif is that it doesnt have a memory heatsink and doesn't have those little games with it. I don't know if it needs a memory heatsink or not.

Also, whats the best gaming mother board and chip combo, new amd 2800s or the p4 3.00 on what the hell ever board? Just curious.

Navaron. go with the AMD it's half the price and on the msae video card as the P4 3.06 the AMD actually had higher FRs

Dragoon412 · 2003-01-06, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Sputty
Navaron. go with the AMD it's half the price and on the msae video card as the P4 3.06 the AMD actually had higher FRs

That's like saying: "In this one race, the MR2 beat the Viper." What track? What race? What conditions?

So... what video card? What AMD chip? What motherboard? What was the framerate, and how was it benchmarked? Who ran the benchmark? Where can I find it?

Dammit, people, quit attempting to give advice regarding computer hardware if you aren't knowledgeable about it; half these posts make about as much sense as a blind man critiquing paintings.

Anyways, the first nVidia FX benchmarks are out. They're incredibly preliminary, both due to the beta stages of the FX card/drivers and that nVidia only allowed them to run tests at specific settings.

It's interesting to notice that what the tests indicate is that while the FX card has quite a deal more processing power, it's still inferior to the 9700 Pro in terms of memory bandwidth... which doesn't bode well for nVidia, since ATi supposedly has a card on the .13u process that's ready to go as soon as the FX is, and it's certainly not going to have <I>decreased</I> memory bandwidth...

Anyways, it's really too early to draw any major conclusions -- it's all speculation at this point, but the article is here.

Navaron · 2003-01-06, 10:55 AM

Dragooon, what is a good site to buy from? I know about pricewatch, and I've gotten a ton of stuff from them, but where can I get that 9700 pro and a good customer support if its dicked up. I got burnt hard from one site I wont mention from pricewatch. I guess I just wanted to know where you buy from. I'll take a link if you don't feel like talking.

NAV

Sputty · 2003-01-06, 11:37 AM

Getting it form ATI.com is a good way...or any store...there's very little chance of it being bad, ATI makes it's products well but it has a warranty on it when you buy it.

Dragoon412 · 2003-01-06, 11:41 AM

I buy from a lot of places, actually... NewEgg, CDW, Crucial (who has some of the best customer service there is, even on par with Speakeasy), etc.

NewEgg:
I can't recommend NewEgg highly enough. They're a very basic, no-frills kind of company. They tell you exactly what you're getting up front, they ship it on time (often for free), and they have excellent customer service and competetive prices to boot.

CDW:
CDW specializes in business systems, so they aren't very competetive on the high-end performance market, but for storage, keyboards, mice, speakers, and the like, they're excellent. CDW is very professional - even moreso than NewEgg. Unfortunately their prices tend to be hit-or-miss, but they're definitely worth checking out.

Now, really, between those two sites, you could buy everything you could need for a computer and get good prices. But if you want to do more bargain hunting, I'll make a couple suggestions:

1. Use the Better Business Bureau religiously. As a rule of thumb, if a company isn't in good standing with the BBB, they don't get my money. If a company is in good standing with the BBB, they may still be questionable, but at least you've got some leverage if they try to rip you off -- believe me, most member companies don't want to get on the BBB's shit list.

2. If you still have reservations, check Tom's Hardware, Ars Technica, OCP, and the like's forums to see what people think. Those guys really know their stuff.

3. You can't get a video card there, but Crucial is AWESOME for RAM. Personally, I don't use them because I favor Corsair RAM, but Crucial offers some of the best customer service in the world -- the quality of their product is up in the air; I don't like it because it doesn't overclock well, and I hear people having problems with it rather often, but I also know a lot of people who absolutely swear by it, even for mission-critical applications. Plus, Crucial sells a lot of RAM, so it stands to reason they'll have more people reporting problems than other manufacturers -- more people have it. I actually use Crucial memory in one of my machines, and I've used it for years in my main machine (I've just recently switched to Corsair) without any problems.

Navaron · 2003-01-06, 11:45 AM

Now that's what I call a reply, thanks man.

Zatrais · 2003-01-06, 12:01 PM

Dragoon412

Where did you see anny GF FX benchmarks?

Annyways, the GF FX dosn't seem to hot to me now.. looks like it will choke under it's low bandwith once more than 2x AA and AF is enabeled.

Edit: sorry, my mistake, the ones from Maximum PC might be real.. the ones from a german site was false.

�io · 2003-01-06, 12:34 PM

Ok just wanted to see and yeah i trust your BBB now.

Buy-Rite Video Games Inc - Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record due to unanswered complaints concerning delivery problems & product dissatisfaction. - The Bureau has requested basic information from this company. The Bureau has not received a response.

If buy-rite would have been an ok company according to them i would have never went there again.

CDaws · 2003-01-06, 03:56 PM

Traditonaly the AMD chips and processors put out more heat than the Pentium chips and processors. So if you do build a system with AMD chips/processor then double make sure you have plenty of ventilation or add a few more case fans anywhere you can put them to help keep it cool. Or if you have the bucks get a water cooled system.

Sputty · 2003-01-06, 03:59 PM

Or if you ahve little extra money but a few normal fans point them at your computers vent area and set them to ma...it actually works...especially with my old iMac which will overheat really badly...

Civilian · 2003-01-06, 04:17 PM

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Ha...forcefx/5.html

Dragoon412 · 2003-01-06, 04:34 PM

I found this in the comments section on Slashdot by waltc, re: FX benchmarking, and thought it to be applicable not only to the new "benchmarks" but to just about everything we've heard on the FX, so far... especially the ones linked to by civilian, which were done in-house by nVidia:

These benches are more of the same passed-around mush that nVidia's been handing out since October. Wake up and smell the coffee, people--these are the same programs nVidia handed out in the October handouts for benchmarking. Did the reviewer have a gun to the back of his head, so that he couldn't mange to run *anything* else? How convenient.

By the author's own words, this was no review. There are no 6x, 8x FSAA tests, at all, although these are supposed capabilities of GF FX--there are no screen shots for comparison--in otherwords, there is absolutely nothing to prove this ever took place. There are no anisptropic filtering tests, we don't know what cpu system the Radeon 9700 benchmarked on--nothing--absolutely nothing of interest that you would normally see in a real review is present. Even if you believe the author--he says unapologetically he was under direct duress by nVidia as far as what he was permitted to show AND SAY.

Already people on the Rage3D forums are talking about how much slower the 9700P speeds are in this promotional propganda piece than they themselves can get with their systems at home.

Also....what, pray tell, would Alienware be doing with a NVIDIA beta prototype? As a small OEM I would expect that if anything Alienware would have an OEM beta version of the card--possibly. Certainly not a nVidia version of a prototype card! If nVidia needs Alienware to beta test its upcoming card this must mean nVidia hasn't even finished the prototype reference design yet and nVidia's OEMs haven't even begun production!

Here's what I think it is: a paid-for promotional piece which is designed to deter people from going ahead and buying an ATI 9700 Pro. What it most certainly is not is an actual review of the product--by the words of the author himself. What I still can't get over is that these are the very same benchmarked programs nVidia was handing out in October!

When nVidia starts sending out cards to reviewers with driver sets and saying, "Have at it--review it any way you like!" that's when I'll start listening.

Anyways, SpecialOp's right; those Athlons clock freaking HOT - I used a fan specified by AMD for my Athlon XP 1600 system, and I still had to add 2 extra case fans to keep the chip cool enough to be stable. By that point, the thing was so damned noisy, I couldn't stand to have it on. Makes me very much appreciative of my new(er) system with its heat pipe, though.

Sputty · 2003-01-06, 04:37 PM

Donm't forget, AMD is aobut half the price and has the same speed basically

Zatrais · 2003-01-06, 04:37 PM

That article dosn't say a thing about actual performance of the FX... hell they used Nvidias own figures, nothing is mentioned about the hardware used in the tests that where done by Nvidia.

Neoseeker just took the figures handed to them by Nvidia...

*shrug* articles like this just confirms to me that the FX is still in trouble.. the final hardware specs on it isn't even final. Tho 1 amusing thing about that article is that it says that the difference between DDR and DDR2 is huge... well it is large but they conveniently left out the fact that cards hasn't even pushed the limit of DDR...

Dosn't seem like the FX is doing so well to me

edit: Is the AMD's still half as expensive as the P4's in the U.S? They're about the same here (norway), or rather P4's are $10 to $12 more than the corresponding AMD here. Pricewar between Pentium and AMD...

�io · 2003-01-06, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by SpecialOpRanger
Traditonaly the AMD chips and processors put out more heat than the Pentium chips and processors. So if you do build a system with AMD chips/processor then double make sure you have plenty of ventilation or add a few more case fans anywhere you can put them to help keep it cool. Or if you have the bucks get a water cooled system.

I got 2 fans, one right on the CPU and another at the back and it's plenty. They don't cause a nuclear meltdown, they heat yeah but it's gonna blow your house up.