Uber-Flail - Page 3

Unknown · 2003-11-01, 02:30 AM

You guys have been saying that alot lately: "Get close to the flail and it can't hurt you". Well, that is true to some extent, however there are 2 problems with that:
1. Actually getting in close. Even tanks can have a hard time getting in close to these things, much less infantry.
2. Once you get in close? Well, if it's a smart driver and you're an infantry/MAX, it will just undeploy, move away a bit, then come back and mow you down. And if you're a tank, getting in close means you're going to hurt yourself with splash damage.

MacavitySWE · 2003-11-01, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by Bismarck

It's interesting you all compare this game to real life weapons and situations.

Hover tanks, guns that shoot energy orbs, tanks that have 150mm cannons that go 60 kph+ and can take shell after shell of an enemy tank, a high altitude shuttle that takes you to wherever you want to go instantly, which comes every minute.....yep, the devs are really stressing reality here.

The flail seems balanced to me, cant fire undeployed, get close and it cant hurt you.

*sigh*

My point exactly, this is a game called Planetside, not called Earthside 2003 ultra realistic battle

Kuraltai · 2003-11-01, 01:45 PM

Guess I'm in the minority with Flammey, BDMJ, Everay and Bismarck. I agree it's a powerful weapon, but don't believe it's over-balanced. I do agree with y'all about the tower issue, deploying a Flail next to a tower to camp is ludicrous, best you should be able to do is keep the deci/missile shooters off the 2nd floor/roof and be vulnerable from the lower level. Now, if this same Flail is deployed at a distance and a spotter has lazed the tower ... that's a different tale, and proper use.

I have taken out several flails while gunning/driving a Prowler. Like with the Reaver and Mosquito, you have to be careful how close you get or you wind up putting yourself in harms way. The DC Max does a number on it too, given enough time.

noxious · 2003-11-01, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Bismarck

It's interesting you all compare this game to real life weapons and situations.

Hover tanks, guns that shoot energy orbs, tanks that have 150mm cannons that go 60 kph+ and can take shell after shell of an enemy tank, a high altitude shuttle that takes you to wherever you want to go instantly, which comes every minute.....yep, the devs are really stressing reality here.

The flail seems balanced to me, cant fire undeployed, get close and it cant hurt you.

*sigh*

Indeed. It isn't reality. The weapons are far fetched but they all fullfull the same roles their real-life counterparts do.

The tanks counter enemy armor and infantry. What do the infantry do? Support the tanks and supress enemy infantry. Hey wow, that's exactly what they do in real life. What do the aircraft do? Assault enemy armor and infantry, as well as other aircraft. What counters that? Anti-aircraft weaponry, and other aircraft just like in real life. It's odd, the dots seem to be connecting. One would assume artillary would be... artillary.. just like in real life.

Alas, it isn't. The flail is a piece of the puzzle that just doesn't fit. It's labeled as artillary, but used as a tank. I believe it was designed with the intention to be used as such, but instead, it's just another tank. I have no problem with it except that it's being used as a tank and called an artillary piece.

Hamma · 2003-11-01, 02:56 PM

Using the argument that it isnt real life is not going to work. This thing has too much armor, I watched one stop, deploy and proceed to fire straight at a base yesterday. In the middle of a battle, that is stupid and not fun if you ask me.

Kuraltai · 2003-11-01, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

Using the argument that it isnt real life is not going to work. This thing has too much armor, I watched one stop, deploy and proceed to fire straight at a base yesterday. In the middle of a battle, that is stupid and not fun if you ask me.

Exactly Hamma, they should have to be deployed at a distance due to the arc required.

Hamma · 2003-11-01, 03:08 PM

I've also seen them spamming inside tower doors, this should not be allowed for such a weapon. You cant even get near the door when it's doing this - where is the fun in that?

Bismarck · 2003-11-01, 10:38 PM

Heh, I'm sure the guy in the flail is having more fun than we can imagine.

And still, you can't brake the reality argument into Inf, armor and air, its just not that simple. There's too many variables, indirect weapons like the phoenix, big guns on the water like the mag.

And if you just flat disagree with the flail (like hamma), well thats your opinon, and in many ways you're right, the whole tower thing is wrong. But if you expect the general population to park their flails way the hell out there and rely on spotters you got another thing coming. There will never be a sucessful vehicle in this game that absolutly requires another person to be of any significance whatsoever. You may say things like the liberator, or tank or skygaurd requires another person, but they can kill without. Only the most organized of outfits will make any use of it, and the opportunities to use the flail topside are so rare I doubt we would ever see one.

Try and find a middle ground somewhere, that'll work

ChewyLSB · 2003-11-01, 11:15 PM

Obviously, some things (like infiltrators) aren't going to be the same as in real life. (Although infiltrations could be compared a bit to spywork. Fighting isn't a good idea unless there's only one guy, you do stuff like sabotage enemy equipment, etc.) But the flail now is ridiculous! You justify it having as much armor as a galaxy, the strength to kill a tank in ONE SHOT, and still have the ability to run down an enemy infantry? I mean, JEEZ. Like I said before, two main things would balance it out completely.

- Reduce the firing arc so that you cannot fire below 60 degrees.

Reasoning: COME ON! It's ARTILLERY NOT A TURRET. It's not supposed to be in the front lines. Go to a real war, do you see howitzers sitting on the front lines? OF COURSE NOT! YOU CAN'T EVEN FIRE THAT ****ING LOW IN A HOWITZER. Do you not understand this?

- Reduce the armor so that it is lower than a lightning. This makes sense, also, since artillery generally isn't very well armored. It's armor is DISTANCE. Basically, a reaver should be able to take down a flail with one clip.

Bismarck · 2003-11-01, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by ChewyLSB

Reasoning: COME ON! It's ARTILLERY NOT A TURRET. It's not supposed to be in the front lines. Go to a real war, do you see howitzers sitting on the front lines? OF COURSE NOT! YOU CAN'T EVEN FIRE THAT ****ING LOW IN A HOWITZER. Do you not understand this?

Do I now understand what? that this is not real life and the flail sure as fucking hell is NOT a howitzer??? Well then yea, i get ya.

Sure, the flail could use a nerf, but not on the grounds of the HOWIZTER not being able to fire below 60 degrees. Time for a reality check

MacavitySWE · 2003-11-02, 12:44 AM

- Reduce the armor so that it is lower than a lightning. This makes sense, also, since artillery generally isn't very well armored. It's armor is DISTANCE. Basically, a reaver should be able to take down a flail with one clip.

Ok so a infiltrator should be able to take it out with his pistol then?

I just played the flail and I saw a very good tactic actually, i parked 500 metres from a tower and pounded it. The commander inside the tower called for backup from 4 aircrafts nearby, 2 reavers, one mosq and one Lib. I lasted maybe 1 min, got 20 kills but the aircraft killed me easily.

I downed the mosq tho

I can reason with these points, its firing arc and possibly the no deploy within SOI as to avoid spamming entrances.

FightForFreedom · 2003-11-02, 02:59 AM

I saw a flail today, it was on a hill camping a tower. I got onto the roof and fired my 2 decimators at it, all 6 shots hit, it didn't blow up. It fired one shot and killed me. It's pointless even trying to shoot those things. You could fire 3 decimators at that thing and not kill it, then it could take a pot shot and the splash would kill you in an instant. On a different occasion, one of those camped a tower. About 100 of us were attacking a base and were spawning at that tower until an AMS came. That 1 flail stopped every last one of us from getting withing 100 yards of the base. It needs a nerf.

BadAsh · 2003-11-02, 03:55 AM

I've only been playing for a little over a week now... but it seems to be you just need to use a little common sense to determine if a particular thing in a game needs balancing...

For me, new guy with limited certs, I had to make the decision to Flail or Snipe.

A sniper can fight from a distance but can't defend against aircraft, vehicles, MAX's, and runs the risk of a cloaker coming from behind or several infantry rushing his position. Why snipe, just FLAIL away

With the Flail you own as a distance with 1 shot infantry kills (snipers only dream of this ability), you can own flyers that are not careful, you can fight against tanks and other vehicles, and MAXs just more one shot kill fodder like the infantry. And you have the armor of a tank so cloakers can get behind you... but now what? They can't do anything... lol. And with some teamwork the Flail can use a spotter and fire from behind obstructions safe from return fire. No sniper can do that.

It seems to me that the Flail will eventually replace all of those snipers you see in big battles as every one realizes how easy it is to be effective with these things because of their raw power.

As a sniper my kill/death ratio was about 2 to 1. Unlearning sniping and learning Flail my "sniping" kill ratio has gone up to about 13 to 1 and my victims include hard and soft targets. Big difference from the soft target only 2 shot kill sniper rifle.

Today, I switched my cert back from Flail to Sniper. The Flail is too easy. Sniper kills feel earned. Flail kills feel �cheap�.

BadAsh

Unknown · 2003-11-02, 04:01 AM

*Applause* Good for you Bad. You certed in the flail, found out how much it totally rocked, then instead of turning into Gollum with the ring ("My precioussss") and trying to justify it to everyone as a perfectly balanced weapon, you stepped back and looked at the bigger picture to see the flail for what it is: unbalanced. Too bad you're not on Emerald, it'd be an honor to die to a foe like you

.

BDMJ · 2003-11-02, 04:12 AM

Most of these problems would be remedied if the arc of the flail was forced up, the shot slowed (so it doesn't have such a shallow trajectory), and the anchoring rules tightened up (anchoring on a 70 degree incline

)

The armor should remain the same, but the main gun should get a few adjustments to make it impossible to use close up. Due to the difficulty obtaining one, it shouldn't have paper thin armor.