Surge Thoughts

[TheRagingGerbil]

The simplest fix is to add a weight value to the weapons and equipment you are carrying.

Looking at it in this way would mean the an Infiltrator carrying no weapons and equipment would move the fastest, while a rexo packing HA and Decis plus full equipment loadout would move the slowest.

I know all the RPG haters are going to bark in how incumberance should stay in that world, but I think it would fight very nicely in the PS world as well.

Adding weight to items would force people to actually think about the consquences of packing 400 rounds of ammo into a battle. It would force people to question the necessity of packing extra med kits that slow them down, or hope that there is a field medic available. The same goes for sidarms and such. I carry a pistol in many of my loadouts...never been used except for a handful of times. If that pistol slowed me down some, I wouldn't pack it.

Let's work out a scenerio here:

For every 1 pound you are carrying, your speed is cut by 1/4 a percent. This value holds true for all weight carried up to the limit set by the armor you are wearing.

Any additional weight above the recommend level set by the armor would yield 1/2 a percent loss in speed.

Armor weight would be 1, 10, 20, and 30 lbs Inf, Standard, Agile, and Rexo respectively. The recommend weight capacity for each would be 4 times the armor weight itself, so 4, 40, 80, and 120 lbs.

Lets say the rexo weighs 30 pounds and recommends less than 120 lbs of gear. Running empty in rexo would then yield a 7.5% loss in speed.

Still with me...good.

Currently, a rexo can pack 5 decis plus some extra stuff. If the deci weighed in at...oh say 45 pounds, you would be able to carry two of them before you went over the recommended weight. So 30lbs + 45lbs +45lbs = 120lbs, which would yield a speed loss of 30%.

Now if that same guy wanted to pack all five decis the equation changes a bit.

5 decis x 45lbs = 225lbs +30lbs(armor) = 255 lbs.

255lbs total - 150lbs armor/load = 105 lbs.

The armor/load of 150 lbs would give a speed loss of 37.5%

The additional load of 105 lbs would drastically incumber the soldier so he would have an additonal spped loss of 52.5%

Overall this soldier would have his speed reduced by almost 90%. This would make him utterly useless in the battle field and that much more realistic. Looking at the numbers would mean he was carrying 255 lbs of gear. No man could jump and run with that much weight.

Just like I added a weight to the deci, the same could go for all weapons. Heavy assault could weigh in at like 75 lbs. Throw some ammo in there at 2 lbs each, lets say 6 boxes, you are up to 87lbs. Finally, three med kits for good measure, now we are sittling at 90lbs. Agile armor weighs 20 lbs and recommends 80 lbs load. 90 + 20 = 110 - 100 = 10 lbs overage. This soldier, your typical surge monkey, would have a speed loss of 32.5 percent.

[Queensidecastle]

EDIT: Responding to your edit

I dont like the idea of true encomberance for Planetside. Its a bit too complicated. However a rexo because of the 3 extra certs it costs should make a better HA trooper while surging than an Agile. One idea could be that the Rexo has builtin cybernetics that allow for greater weight to be carried effectivly so stamina wouldnt drain as fast while using HA

[BadAsh]

Further thoughts:

Actually after thinking about it for a while I�d like to see all 3 solutions implemented. Fixing the warping is important and I don�t think anyone would argue that, or at lease admit to disagreeing. I�m sure there are many people who love it and rely on it to a large extent.

The idea of reinforced armor being required to wield a heavy assault weapon appeals to be because it slows down the heavy hitters and prevents pilots and drivers from having heavy assault. That to me is a further trade off for having their powerful vehicle. I don�t think a reaver pilot needs the advantage of a heavy assault weapon once he loses his aircraft. That was the purpose behind not being able to wear reinforced armor and be able to pilot in the first place� to reduce the �one man army� capability of singular players.

I also really like the idea of needing to holster your weapons to activate surge. Being able to surge and fight at the same time is a very powerful combination as everyone has already discovered. In a fight speed and mobility is of utmost importance. In my reinforced armor and with my mini-chain gun I can use surge to flank a MAX unit and stay behind him. Nothing he can do except wait for me to land enough AP rounds (bout 75) so he can respawn. A VS MAX can jet away, but unless he has a safe place to land I�ll complete my gunning and surging process when he comes down. One thing though, I�d like to see it implemented so that activating surge automatically holsters your weapons and that when you draw a weapon it automatically disengages surge to make the process smoother for the surge user.

In conclusion I�d love to see all 3 put into effect. This would fix a nasty and overly exploited bug in the game. It would further limit the usage of HA as a primary weapon which IMHO is a good thing. Finally, it would force people to slow down to fight which is very good for any FPS played over the internet.

[Hamma]

I think a combination of Rexo requirement AND no surging while having weapon drawn is a good call.

[Rayder]

Most people that use MAXs don't understand that walls are your friends when dealing with people that don't have deci or av.

[Searo]

Ai'tal-
Worst post ever. You are trying to justify surge by saying that we aren't any good.
"Newbs! Just because you can't hit someone warping around you cry for a nerf!"

Yes, there is a glitch. Surge causes it. Even if they remove the glitching, the HA users are still going to pop around a corner and blast you to smithereens before you can react.

What? We're worse than offical forums? Our whining killed the medics and engineers? Clarify.

Also, I think you're misinterpreting the glitch. The glitch isn't stamina drain, it's the fact that surge allows the user to warp across screens.

Stamina drain is not an effective limit! Standard armor can surge for 2 minutes according to what I've heard. Agile is a decent time, and reinforced is balanced at a short time. But people have discovered, that a super-fast Standard with a MCG can own any other armor with the same MCG.

Also Ai'tal, I pray that your last paragraph was sarcastic. If you believe that a company would gather information on the best beta testers, close their product from general public, test it for a few months, and then re-open, you are insane.
I would quit and not come back, and 90% of the population also would.

I believe all three should be implemented, but HA should cost 3 CP.

[STEALTHKILLER]

Lets just let stealthers able to have surge, that will sole the problem....


Anyway, everyone has some acess to surge,agile,JH. Its called surge,agile,swepper.

[noxious]

Are they serious? Rexo a prereq for HA. rexo is the BIGGEST waist of three certs in the game. It slows you down, only provides any real extra protection against small arms, and drains stamina like there's no tomorrow. I don't mind the idea of forcing players to unequip their weapon before suring, but I swear if they force all HA users to get rexo I am just gonna snap.

[NoSurrender]

im so upset because the TR and VS just act like MCG+Surge and Lasher+surge ARENT deadly. alll sides weapons are good in certain situations. People dont like the JH because surge is a huge boost to that weapon because the JH is best in up close situations. I use HA to keep competitive. I get killed by the MCG oh so many times because i am out of range for the jackhammer. I know any TR who is fair will admit that when a jackhammer is not in close proximity that it is not nearly as deadly. The lasher shines in backdoor type areas. 4-5 Vanu spamming lashers held off a crapload of NC because they could have area dmg. I personally think HA should be replaced by some other form of weapons.

The reason JH users get so many kills is because most of the fighting is indoors in CLOSE COMBAT AREAS!!! that is where the jackhammer SHINES!!! now if the MCG or LASHER was ideal for those situations the other 2 empires would bitch and moan NON STOP! so i say FUCK HA!

[FireZ]

Originally Posted by Hamma

I think a combination of Rexo requirement AND no surging while having weapon drawn is a good call.

/me claps

This would limit the no talent tards out of the sanc from having heavy assault to begin with. Thus making them earn their kills with MA and possibly gaining some skill along the way because they will have to learn to kill the people that have made it there already.

I would definitly like to see them limit surge to no weapons out. Yes the JH is a joke when you can get up with the weapon that quick in point blank range....but ya know what...so it the lasher and the MCG. The JH is, however, the only weapon that you can insta-kill at close range with a little less than full health. But the problem here is that is why it is gimped at range as well...both the lasher and the MCG have a better range than it. If you have to surge in and then pull out the gun...it will cause a lot more skill then previous because there is an extreme chance that the person that you are surging to will cut you down on the way

[Queensidecastle]

I am actually rather dissapointed that those 3 choices are all we are presented with for discussion. Surge itself is NOT the problem. The problem is the warping effect and the unintended effect of Agile making a better attack trooper than a Rexo. This problems can be fixed by other means

[Vick]

HA is broken, surge is warping. Nerf HA, fix surge.

I am sweeper - surge, sweeper takes alot of skill to use, it is not spam like all the HA weapons.

I am not some nuub running around spamming JH/MCG/lasher while jumping-surging to incude warps.

I use surge to move around my target faster so I can avoid fire while I aim my sweeper.

I will be happy if the warps are fixed, that is plenty. Everything else needs to be HA nerfs. HA is dumb, skilless, and overpowered

[BadAsh]

Originally Posted by Vick

I will be happy if the warps are fixed, that is plenty. Everything else needs to be HA nerfs. HA is dumb, skilless, and overpowered

Vick,

With full respect for your opinion� I disagree completely with your synopsis. Heavy weapons are powerful and rightfully so. They are not cheap in cert points so you have to sacrifice other certs to obtain them. PS is a game of situational tactics determined by your certs and currently equipped items, a FPS game, and has some RPG elements rolled into one and it�s pretty fairly balanced. Everything is a trade off as it should be.

Let�s say I got HA and with your 4 cert points you got a Reaver. Outside in the open you�d murder me every time. The ONLY thing I could do is try and find cover and force you to use your rockets to take me out from behind that tree or rock. Now when you land your reaver and try to cap a base or tower, I have better odds against you and there is your trade off. Note however that HA vs. MA is no guaranteed spank fest as is the HA vs. Reaver example. So MA does have a fighting chance, especially at medium to long range. Again it�s situational tactics.

You getting owned by HA at close range? Well, that�s how it should work. Just like if I tried going toe to toe with my HA vs. a Heavy or Light Tank. Or If I tried a long range battle with HA vs. a Sniper. You have to match certs and gear to hang in a given situation. Not willing to spend the points? Then live with the consequences of the weakness you selected. We all have them. For me the choice was HA or Reaver. So every time a Reaver busts me in the open I always think to myself �man, if I had just selected reaver�� But, I think it inappropriate to start flaming the reaver pilot for the " dumb, skilless, and overpowered" cert that capitalizes on the current weakness in my cert/equipment build.

BadAsh

[TeraHertz]

I can't wait for them to implement this. It'll make a nice christmas present. For some people I fear, it may come too late. For others, the skilless NC wonders will moan that they aren't able take out entire squads and quit.

After surge is nerfed, what will I moan about o?
There will be nothing left!

[Hamma]

Originally Posted by Queensidecastle

I am actually rather dissapointed that those 3 choices are all we are presented with for discussion. Surge itself is NOT the problem. The problem is the warping effect and the unintended effect of Agile making a better attack trooper than a Rexo. This problems can be fixed by other means

I agree that is a LARGE part of it, however that WILL be fixed in the next patch or so - after that we shall see what comes.