Different Armors for different Armies - Page 3

Ludio · 2003-01-25, 04:27 AM

Also, there is no grief points if you hit someone on your team.

Ahh, actually thats the only way to get grief points is by tking. If you are using lots of explosive weapons then you had better be aware of your teammates.

We know that the devs are looking to remove any "1 shot kills" from the game. That means if you throw a grenade at a normal soldier in Agile or Reinforced armor, I will wager they survive the blast. That means grenades cannot kill something with 100 armor, the Vanu MAX sports 6 times that amount.

Did I say one grenade? I said a couple. And a regular infantry has an advantage over the MAX becuase it is more maneuverable in a small environment, they could leave a room before a grenade goes off, a MAX probably couldn't. And if the grenades dont kill it then it will still be damaged. Also a grenade is not the same as a sniper rifle, it has to be used at closer range, and even if it doesnt kill anyone if it takes off most of their health they are still screwed when you bust into the room with your assault rifle.

I do agree that the purpose of reinforced armor will be flexibility. But when you are inside a base with the goal of killing off the defenders, flexibility is not a priority, killing power is.

Is it though? I would rather have somone hack into the base and destroy the generators before the main attack comes rather then kill a few defenders. If your only goal was to kill defenders you may be right, but it isnt, its to take the base, by any means neccessary, and protect it from counterattacks.

Another factor which hasnt been brought up is that it takes more certs to get a MAX with one weapon, let alone all three. If you are a reinforced armor grunt and you see some MAX's heading toward your base then hop into a tank and take them out before they can get into your base, it would probably take the same amount of certs.

One of the main problems with this game is that it isnt released yet, I am confident however that the devs are taking the utmost care at balancing then game. This means that the MAX is not going to be the ultimate infantry, it will have its place like all the others.

Zatrais · 2003-01-25, 07:11 AM

Guys, most of you seem to argue from the point that the MAX will enter the base alone... now why would a MAX enter a base alone if not to just see how manny he can kill before going down.

Now, when i get into a base in my AI MAX i will as soon as i see you (the enemy) spam freely (hell the VS MAX can carry 600 rounds) whit shots to keep you away while i walk point down a corridor acting as a wall for my squad and i will be the first man into a new room to try to clear it as we move towards the main terminal. Heck, a TR MAX just walking forwards spamming grenades would keep most people away hehe. And yeah i will have one guy or more repearing whatever damage you do to me.

I think MAX's will be one of the most essential tools for indoor fighting. Having a walking tank inside, don't tell me that won't be usefull. And the turn rate or the movement speed for MAX's isn't overly slow, just look at the VS MAX in the gamespot movies

Annyways, i doubt we'll see alott of MAX's. Most people seem want to use the reinforced exo. Can fill more roles than a MAX in it ya know. (poll on the PSU front page)

Ahh, actually thats the only way to get grief points is by tking. If you are using lots of explosive weapons then you had better be aware of your teammates.

You can't get greifpoints by hurting your own squad members. Not sure if that goes for platoons aswell.

Did I say one grenade? I said a couple. And a regular infantry has an advantage over the MAX becuase it is more maneuverable in a small environment, they could leave a room before a grenade goes off, a MAX probably couldn't. And if the grenades dont kill it then it will still be damaged. Also a grenade is not the same as a sniper rifle, it has to be used at closer range, and even if it doesnt kill anyone if it takes off most of their health they are still screwed when you bust into the room with your assault rifle.

People wouldn't be able to leave the room before grenades go off, only a 2 sec fuse or detonate on impact.

VS MAX ammo
http://planetside-universe.com/media...d=37&img_id=24

Ludio · 2003-01-25, 12:18 PM

Guys, most of you seem to argue from the point that the MAX will enter the base alone... now why would a MAX enter a base alone if not to just see how manny he can kill before going down.

I couldnt agree more, Mazelmavin's first post implied that he thought MAX's were all that were neccessary to take a base. I agree that they are important, but not any more important than infiltrators, or reinforced armor that is in there with them.

I know that squadmates dont get you grief points, but you arent always going to be fighting with only your squad mates, or even platoon. Even if three squads attack a base it doesnt mean they will join into a platoon unless properly organized. And there could be more than three squads. Mazelmavin didnt specify squad, only team, and the only way to get grief points is to kill people on your team.

Youd be suprised how much you can do in two seconds. Im not saying that grenades will be useless, far from it, but if a lighter armor was entering a room and someone threw a couple of grenades in they might be able to escape, with a MAX it would be harder, especially with the slower rate of turning.

I was trying to point out that a MAX is not an invulnerable god of death, simply another part of the squad that functions under the heavy assault support role.

Ouroboros · 2003-01-25, 12:59 PM

It would seem that a bunch for explosive firepower would play in favor of the MAXs, and I totally agree, but seeing the videos, indoors seem quite small, small as in two might fit in a hallway, maybe 3 or 4 in the stairwells*. Plus, add in the consideration that the enemy is shooting at you with AP rounds doing mostly health damage, then a gernade rolls under your feet and drops your armor. Now, your buddies(6-7) are ALL shooting explosive rounds, with the cone of fire in play, you aren't sure exactly where they will actually hit, one of the blasts hits the ground next to you, does splash damage and kills you.
That's just not happy.

*In a line that is.

Ouroboros · 2003-01-25, 01:12 PM

Wanna comment on this Hamma? You're the one that's played the game.

Shyfted One · 2003-01-25, 01:56 PM

If all your armor doesn't have to be depleted before you start taking health damage (which I hope it's like) then most people in MAXes will probably die before their armor hits 0 anyway. By using weapons that you know will take away a good chunk of health even with 650 or higher armor, then it'd definately be effective to use against a MAX.

Metallik · 2003-01-25, 02:55 PM

Ok...I'm thinking that some people...are just stupid...

It will be like in UTChampionship for X-Box, it won't take more effort to turn, just a slower amount of time. Trust me, your arm won't ware out for a matter of turning, I'm sure they're smarter than that.

NC Sucks...

TR Sucks...

Vanu Forever

Mazelmavin · 2003-01-25, 05:18 PM

Ahh, actually thats the only way to get grief points is by tking. If you are using lots of explosive weapons then you had better be aware of your teammates.

Did I say team? Oops, I meant squad.

One other thing to Ludio,
Since this is a game that has yet to be played by a good amount of people I hesitate to call someone wrong. But you have a wrong assumption. Small enviroments limit and negate
maneuverablity. Its just a fact. You can't maneuver if you don't have room to move. For proof, take a look at a Tribes Heavy, or a HWG in TFC, or a BF1942 tank in a city(although, I will admit, a tank is kind of pushing it).

I couldnt agree more, Mazelmavin's first post implied that he thought MAX's were all that were neccessary to take a base. I agree that they are important, but not any more important than infiltrators, or reinforced armor that is in there with them.

Of course there is more to taking a base then killing the defenders, but I believe that killing those defenders can make everyone elses job a little bit easier.
I didn't mean to imply that MAX armors will be all that is needed. I think that they will have to be supported by reinforced healers and repairmen (as well as stealth hackers).

In fact, that is my point. Not that MAX armor is unbalanced, but that reinforced armor will most likely play support for MAX.
You can talk about grenades and grief, explosives and internal enviroments all you want. But if a MAX can fit its big a$$ inside a base, its going to do some serious damage before going down. And if its properly supported by reinforced armor, its going to stay up for a while.

SandTrout · 2003-01-26, 05:05 AM

Reinforced armor wil supply the majority of basic grunts because it's more mobile than a MAX, and much more vercital. The poinnt of the game is not to kill the enemy, but rather to take the bases.

Reinforced armor brings good firepower, decent mobility, and good armor. While if a reinforced armor tried to take on an AI MAX, he would get slaughtered, he can also out-run and out-meneuver the MAX so that he can get behind him and/or pop him with a couple plasma 'nades.

Mobility is highly underrated indoors. If you can outrun your enemys, you can find hideing spots and set up ambushes, then run off to repair or set up another ambush.

I think SOE is trying to make the Rein armor the most effective all-around fighter, and limmit the MAX to a fire-support role.

I think Agile armor will be the pilots, snipers, and outdoor scouts. they can pilot stuff and outrun any infantry(besides sprinting MAX)

RageMaster · 2003-01-26, 06:52 AM

Warborn,

I think you might be thinking a little to deep on the subject of MAX's and implants. Just because a MAX is big and heavy doesnt mean it acts like a vehicle at all, essentially it still comes under the 'armour' bracket. So things like the sprint implants, I think, could still be used in MAX armour. I have read that you need more stamina if you are in heavier armours, so I'd presume MAX's can also use this ability as they come under the 'armour' bracket, but either sprint slower, or sprint a comparatively shorter distance for the stamina they use.

�io · 2003-01-26, 11:50 AM

Pretty sure MAX = mini tank. No equipment, no implants.

Think about it what's the use of a MAX having Melee Booster, Regeneration and Second Wind? And forget about Silent Run.

Duritz · 2003-01-26, 01:49 PM

Just because the MAX is more powerful doesn't mean it can't use them; it doesn't mean that it can either. However, you can assume that just because it can't use a few effectively that it can't use any.

I think that silent run would be very nice in a MAX, but it wouldn't last long at all.

Plus most of the implants would be nice on a MAX only few are useless, and if you look at it that way a few implants are useless for each type of character except for a couple.

Zanzibar · 2003-01-26, 01:58 PM

they have a seperate source of 'stamina' just for sprinting and MAX powers

�io · 2003-01-26, 02:21 PM

I'm positive they won't use them, as i said many of them would be useless (Melee booster, Regeneration and Second Wind) and other would be dumb (Silent run, Surge).

The MAX is an eXo-suit not just an armor, it's not your own body doing the work it's the actual mechanized armor itself, that's why it's more of a vehicle than an armor and it can't do dexterous tasks like using a REK or other equipment.

Zatrais · 2003-01-26, 02:23 PM

Darklight and audio mag would be nice in a MAX tho hehe