Now what about space combat...

[Wraithlord]

hell yeah there are warhammer 40k people here, my name is my favorite veh in it, woot go power fists !

[Firefly]

Planetside starships should look like the HART. And you can only launch them from a HART facility. You're limited to space around Auraxis and whatever those three moon-things are.

-- Your HART can deploy troops to continents like a Sanc HART, but you're on the ship and you go to a drop-pod bay and from there, straight to the map.

-- Your HART is outfit-only, and only the outfit can use it. Certain amounts of outfit points must be attained AND THEN EXPENDED. Only the outfit CR5s or a collection of CR4s can authorize its usage, and it comes out of an outfit HART facility (so it doesnt clog up the regular HART. All troops in the "Observation Deck" are automatically transported to it, as opposed to waiting around for the five-minute timer and all that crap.

-- Outfit HARTS have spawn tubes, equipment, cert, and implant terminals. Possibly vehicle drop-pods that can drop a vehicle. They could also have a Galaxy dropship bay, where Galaxies and combat aircraft are spawned and loaded, then dropped from orbit from a rack perhaps.

-- Outfit personnel in-game can elect to Recall to HART instead of an outfit base or Sanctuary

-- HART ships would have Phalanx batteries and possibly a rocket-pod system. They would also have shields. They are a fortune to obtain, and thus should be virtually impregnable fortresses.

-- HART-to-HART combat is possible, but only after the HART weapons are disabled (you'd be warned that you're under attack). Shipboard combat would take on a new meaning as outfits fought to defend their HART (which cost them a ton of outfit points to earn and then spend). HARTs that have been captured will dissipate after a short period of time, since one outfit can only have one HART.

This would be the first true method of outfit versus outfit competitions.

[Krinsath]

Originally Posted by Wraithlord

hell yeah there are warhammer 40k people here, my name is my favorite veh in it, woot go power fists !

I'm so glad they're nerfing the Wraithlords Damned things were worse than Lashers the way people were using them. And it's really not a nerf as much as it is making them be used the way they were intended. You have to buy a heavy weapon now (or when the new 'Dex comes out...so the stories say). I'm so glad they got Gav working on Warhammer Fantasy...the guy does great storylines and great work, but he could not write a balanced, fair codex to save his life. They're very characterful and carry the storyline well, but in game terms are way too open to abuse (the Wraithlords, for example...where you can fit 3 into a 1000 point game... ).

Of course, Grey Knight Grandmasters own them if they get into HtH...God bless S6 Force Weapons and Invulnerable saves.

[Wraithlord]

I'm so glad they're nerfing the Wraithlords Damned things were worse than Lashers the way people were using them. And it's really not a nerf as much as it is making them be used the way they were intended. You have to buy a heavy weapon now (or when the new 'Dex comes out...so the stories say). I'm so glad they got Gav working on Warhammer Fantasy...the guy does great storylines and great work, but he could not write a balanced, fair codex to save his life. They're very characterful and carry the storyline well, but in game terms are way too open to abuse (the Wraithlords, for example...where you can fit 3 into a 1000 point game... ).

'



they are nerfing them, damnit I havent played for a year and look what happens

oh well, I abused them enough anyways heh, 2 with power fists and then then dual lance (if you are using the old codec) was all I ever needed, I guess Ill have to actually make an army now

[Krinsath]

At least you acknowledge it was abuse

I'm still waiting to see if anyone complains about the Imperial Guard + Daemonhunters combo...the limitless firepower of the Guard combined with the close combat prowess of the Grey Knights with Force Weapons (on Grandmasters) and Invulnerable Save Ignoring weapons. Evil, just evil.

There was that Batrep about a year ago where a GK Grandmaster took down a Greater Demon and Wraithlord in a single turn. That was the official announcement of a new Close Combat king. 'Specially since they can get 4+ invulnerable saves and have 3 Wounds themselves, plus terminator armor and 5 attacks on the charge at S6. Gorgeous models too.

Anyway, to somewhat end the thread hijacking...

I'd actually like to see a Space Combat suit similar to the Grey Knights made. Have the ships as "bases" and you must have transports to get from base to base. If your transport gets blown up, you've got about a minute before the suit's integrity fails and you die (in the standard armors). The EVA suit would be 2 certs and could travel on a jump jet system similar to the VS MAXes. It would not require transport and would have a fairly nasty gun integrated. That'd be cool.

Space Lock, when you control all the bases, would cut the OS timer in half (still 1.5 hours then, right?) and allow HART drops onto all continents. On the flip side, there should be a bunch of space bases and satellites so that it is very difficult to do.

Thoughts?

[Onizuka-GTO]

Oh wow, talking about GW (sorry, you lot started it. )
I happened to stumble on a GW shop that was just open recently in Newky, (I'm living in a University City for....erm...university) and couldn'tr resist looking in and uwaaaa! The Tau's look so cute! (They had the WH40K Epic version on Display)
I really like the look of the battlesuits! So Mecha anime-like! I had to stop myself from buying some and the frisbee drones....

[/hijack]

Yeah, space combat sounds...fun.....

[Krinsath]

Oni,

The Tau are really cool. They suck in hand-to-hand, but damn, those boys can rip almost anything apart with guns. You see the Hammerhead or the Devilfish? Those would be *bad ass* in PS.

I don't know if you're into the whole Chaos mythos, but the Defiler is a sweet model too. Grey Knights, despite being insanely expensive, are freakin awesome models...never mind the rules. You should look at getting back into it, while they still release some dog models...most of their recent work has been pretty fantastic (the new plastic Cadians are great!).

Just to see if we can hijack this thread a little more....

*holds gun to thread conductors head* that's it...keep your hand off the brake...

Oh yeah, Thunderhawks, that'd be a cool concept in PS for Space Combat or the Core game...it's like a Galaxy, but with one big ass cannon mounted on top. Imagine a Galaxy with a 150mm on top...except that it is a bit easier to aim than a Galaxy would be. Sheesh, fly up on a lib, two shots later...BOOM...and then, and THEN! drop 15 guys into combat....ok, maybe that's a bit overpowered, but damn it'd be cool.

Hey! The Heavy Combat Space Vehicle!

See?! We're on topic here....move along Hamma...nothing to see here....LOOK! BOOBS! OVER IN THE OTHER THREADS! GO LOOK!


.....heh heh heh

[Onizuka-GTO]

Orca (Tau Dropship) = HART

[Krinsath]

Nah, the Orca doesn't carry very much...more like Orca = Galaxy.

The HART would be the http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Bat.htm that beauty. And DAMN, that would be a cool template for a space combat ship for PS....

*waits for the on-topic police to move along*

But just for scale purposes, those tanks in the back would be roughly the size of the Prowler. That's a really cool looking model, too bad Forgeworld's prices make GW's seem totally reasonable (not that it stops me from having FW models, mind you...I have 3 large scale ones...which aren't the easiest to get across the pond...damned selfish limeys )

[Firefly]

Fuuuck that, give me a Space Marine Thunderhawk any day of the week. THAT would be a bad-ass heavy combat assault dropship.

[LimpBIT]

would add a nice feel to planetside. But it would be to much like..... Freelancer. Planetside needs to keep its option of ground combat, air combat, or infantry combat. But i wouldnt mind trying it out. It would all depend on how the controlling, weapons, ships, bases, and how it is in general. All games have different styles of combat so if they messed it up it would suck.

[SlyMarbo]

ooohhh.......... my catachans with Demonhunter support...... or better yet my big battle army (1st Mars Armor [Shadowsword (Commisar Tank commander Custom hero), 2 baneblades, 2 Destroyer Tank hunter, 2 Vanquishers, 4 Leman Russ (standard), 1 slamander scout 3 Chimera Transports w/ IG in Carapace Armor [aka Grenediers], Vanquisher Command tank [sidesponsen flamers, co-axial hvy bolter, comms, etc.]. Supers in own army grouping; HQ:Command Vanq; group 1: 1st destroyer, 1st Vanq, Leman Russ 1 and 2; group 2: 2nd Destroyer, 2nd Vanq, Leman russ 3 and 4; group 3: Slamander scout, the three Chimeras (bolters/flamers depends on who/what I'm up against) -> Designed for house rules grand battles... I usually am supporting my best friend's greyknights anyway, either that or our other friend's Canadian Cadians. OUr prefered Enemies are John's Chaos [of course] or Andy's Nids)

[SlyMarbo]

I'm looking to buy a IG Valkyrie Gunship/transport for a Fast attack Stormtrooper group. it'll be fun when i get it up and running.

And don't kick and whine cause i double posted just deal and get on with your life

[Krinsath]

Armored company...the only army list cheesier than the Kraftworld Eldar

If you can get that much armor together and painted though, congrats...I know how much of a pain in the ass those IG tank kits are (built six of them...took about as many hours to get all the fiddly tread bits and such seated right and spread out correctly).

Ok...Space Combat:

1) The bases are big ships similar to the Manta Ray picture referenced earlier. Controlling various types of ship will give some sort of benefit to the continent directly below (which changes randomly). I'm thinking 6 ships, so not every continent would be affected by one, but enough to provide incentive.

2) The heavy transports are similar to Thunderhawk gunships

3) The ships alter position and linkage periodically, the orbital bases and satelitte stations in orbit remain the same. The Orbital bases function much like the sanctuaries, the stations similar to towers. Ships can be "destroyed" by wrecking key equipment and making the ship a drifting hulk. The continent below cannot get any benefit from the system unless a repair crew (EVA cert + Eng cert) repair all of these areas and can bring in other supplies.

4) Space is treated as one gigantic "continent" where the transit is accomplished via transport ships. I'm thinking there should be several different types, ranging from the EVA suit, which is a separate cert and a one man transport all the way up to Heavy Assault Transport (again it's own cert) that allows access to this gigantic space combat only vehicle capable of taking on the ships guns and carrying a full platoon. The intermediary vessels would be a two man fighter, available to those with Air Cav...a four man missile bomber (missiles only will target the Heavy Transports, Repair ships and Ship turrets) available to Air Support troopers, along with the Galaxy. A Repair ship (similar to the ANT on the surface) available to CE troopers for hulked and badly damaged ships, acquirable from the orbital bases and a select few stations (maybe only 3 sources total).

I actually have a bunch more ideas...let me actually reflect on this and come back with defined ideas...I'm tired now

[Krinsath]

My Ideas, as promised.

SPACE COMBAT EXPANSION

Ok, the Space around Auraxis is represented by combat in an airless vaccum, without gravity for the most part on a playing field roughly equal to the size of largest continent, except everything is in the play area. This should be done to provide the highest concentration of space battles while not diluting the player base on the surface...perhaps make two "hemispheres" and have one active and the other present *just in case* the player base LOVES space combat and there's never any room in orbit. The expansion should fully viable off of one play area though. Should the second area be needed, the number of ships would be cut in half (i.e. - 1 of each class in each hemisphere instead of 2). Benefits from owning both still apply regardless of the number of active zones (see below.)

The hard vaccuum of space is more than most armors can stand unprotected. Standards and Agiles die in 10 seconds if exposed to direct vaccuum. Rexos have 30 seconds to try and reach a ship/base (really only going to happen if you're very close). MAXes survive as normal, but have very limited movement.

Each empire, has an orbital base. This functions similar to the Santuary on the surface, and is reachable via the HART only. There would be a toggle on the HART screen similar to the Cavern/Continent view toggle in the caves that would allow those with the expansion to travel into orbit. The orbital stations can be attacked, however, they cannot be boarded. Each is armed with a number of Ion defensive cannons (more on those later).

There are two types of "objectives" in orbit, ships and stations. The ships are the main objective of the game, each with multiple critical systems that must be held for "ownership", these represent the ships that originally traveled through the wormhole, and they provide benefits directly to the surface. The Satelitte stations do not provide any direct benefit to the surface, but will provide benefits in space.

SHIPS AND STATIONS

The ships types and functions are the following:

Transport ships - These were the original ships that transported the then-colonists. They have since been modified into giant drop pod carriers. The empire who controls this ship may HART drop onto the affected continent, regardless of Dominion or Lock status. They may also drop into the SOI of any non-Capitol or sub-Capitol. Controlling both of the Transports results in the HART timer on the surface being halved. The ship itself is armed with a respectable number of turrets, but unlikely to withstand a coordinated assault.

Science Vessels - In the early days of the colonization, these ships were responsible for the early unlocking of Vanu technology. The knowledge in their databanks is invaluable, and when beamed down to the surface can swing the tide in the controlling empire's favor. Controlling a Science ship results in the affected continent having all FLB available through control of bases, even if the bases are not connected via the Lattice. Generator destruction will result in that FLB being lost as the information cannot be relayed. The continent always counts as having the Tech Plant FLB, even if hacking an enemy vehicle terminal. Controlling both science vessels allows AT weapons/vehicles to be acquired from any empire equipment terminal, even Sanctuary. This ship has only a few turrets, and will only be able to repulse the most disorderly of attacks.

Warships - The protection of the early days, the two warships that arrived with the colonization ships are still some of the most powerful weapons in the system. They are also the largest. Maintaining control of one gives the controlling empire access to advanced space weapons and also a CR5 on the bridge may execute one "free" OS per hour. That is an empire wide 1 hour, so multiple CR5s will not be able to use it. The hour still applies even if the ship is captured by multiple empires over the course of that time. Controlling both Warships allows the space fighters to be used on the surface. These ships are extremely heavily armed, and if properly crewed will destroy all but the most dedicated assaults.

The Satellite stations are scattered somewhat randomly, and there are roughly 4 of each type). Their functions are as follows (Note: All stations include 2 Spawn tubes and 1 Equipment terminal):

Gun platforms - Defensive emplacements. They have a turret above and below as well as a medium hangar terminal.

Sensor Station - Unarmed. Control reveals all enemy ships (not EVA suits) in radar range so long as the friendly sensor station is the closest such station (i.e. - flying closer to an enemy ship or station will lose this benefit). Has light hangar facility.

Dock - Four turrets in a ring. Includes space repair platform and 2 medium hangars. The Docks are the only place outside of the Orbital Bases to get a Repair ship.

Fighter Base (only 2 of these) - 2 Turrets, space repair platform, heavy ship terminal.

NEW CERTIFICATIONS:

Extra-Vehicular Access (EVA) Suit - An attempt at making a middle ground between MAXes and Rexo soldiers, it was found to be too weak to be used where a MAX suit was, but too bulky to replace the Rexo as a viable surface armor and so the concept was initially shelved. However, the nature of the armor makes it ideal for space travel with a minimum of modification. Equipped with thrusters and mag boots, the EVA allows full travel in space for an individual soldier. The EVA has 300 armor and has armor absorbtion similar to the Rexo. If reduced to 0 armor, they lose the benefits of being able to be out in the vaccuum until repaired. The suit includes 2 Rifle slots, but only 1 pistol slot, which can only be occupied by grenades and REKs, no Medical Applicators or BANKs. EVAs CAN carry the "glue gun". Cost: 2 certs.

NEW VEHICLES

Thunderbird Light Fighter - Agile, one man fighter. Weak armor, Class 1 Laser cannon (in space, the weapons are largely laser based due to the distances involved) which roughly equates to a 20mm cannon. Able to enter air-locks, but deconstructs after doing so (1 way ticket). Cert: Air Cav

Bandit Medium Fighter - Bulkier, two man fighter. Medium armor, Class 1 rearward laser cannon (2nd crewman), Dual Class 2 Laser Cannons (25mm equivalent) forward firing for pilot. Able to enter air-locks. Cert: Ground Transport

Typhoon Heavy Bomber - four man bomber. Pilot (no weapons), front gunner (Class 2 cannon), Rear gunner (Class 1 Cannon), "bomber" (Immoltator Missile Rack). Armor slightly larger than the Bandit. Cert: Air Support

Salvation Repair Craft - Light armor, unarmed. Can dock at air-locks (similar mechanism to ANT deploy), contributing repair points until drained (see Damaging Ships) when it deconstructs. Cert: CE

Mauler Heavy Transport - Massive aircraft, capable of transporting 15 troops (1 Pilot, 4 Gunners, 6 Infantry and 4 MAXes/EVAs). Rearward firing Class 2 Cannon, two side mounted Class 3 [35mm equivalent] and a Turbolaser turret on top with fixed firing arc[150mm equivalent...power offset by need for coordination between gunner and pilot]. When docked to an airlock, functions as a spawn point w/equipment terminal at the end of the assault tube (players will spawn in the airlock, mechanism similar to AMS). When a Mauler is docked to an air-lock, no further ships may enter or leave that air-lock until the Mauler is destroyed or undeploys. Mauler is hackable when docked. Cert: Ground Support

Stiletto Special Operations Craft - Representing the pinnacle of stealth technology, this 3 man craft is jet black (only sign it's there will be the blinking out of stars as it passes by) and invisible to all radar. Lightly armored, with medium speed and no weapons, the Stiletto can dock with an air-lock (same manner as the Thunderbird) without setting off an alarm. This craft is purpose built for inserting sabotage teams onto enemy ships and stations.

GAMEPLAY/SHIP LAYOUT

Each ship has six separate objectives that must be held for control of that ship to belong to a given empire. All have 5 minute hack timers (ship boarding is fast and furious)They are:

1) Bridge - Control of the bridge will determine dominion of the ship. Only assailable if at least one of the other two spawn points is held by the attacking empire.
2) Engines - If the side controlling the engines does not have Dominion, the spawn time for the controlling factions get a 5s spawn penalty. Destroying the engines will cause the gravity to fail, posing movement problems for non-EVAs.
3) Sensor Array - If the Sensor Array is lost, radar will no longer display incoming enemy craft and the turrets will no longer auto-fire. Alerts will not sound for intrusions, only for damage to critical areas or hacks.
4) Hangar Bay - Contains the launch terminals for the ship. Only usable by controlling faction. Science ships have Light terminals, Transports have mediums and warships have Heavy.
5) Reactor Core - If this is destroyed, the ship will be on very dim red emergency lights (VERY dim. Dominion ownership will cause the automated spitfires on the inside to fire at enemies.
6) Security/Armory - One of three spawn points. Required to assault bridge.


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Ugh, need to do real work...and the post got too long, but what do you guys think so far?