Is Lasher A Spam Weapon?

[Krinsath]

Oni,

There is a slight bug with the lash restriction being removed. The lash is in all directions, so if you're behind the lasher currently, you still get lashed...through the firer in some cases. That gives the Lasher an unfair advantage in CQB as they just need to keep shooting and staying close and they can take down their opponent. No direct hits actually required...and if you manage to get a direct hit, it's a foregone conclusion.

That distance has been restored in the patch current on the test server as I recall. Anyone gone on there and seen what the Lasher is like now? Hmmmm? I play TR on the test server and don't have the time to do the conclusive tests you people seem to demand, but I'd be willing to bet that the Lasher is back in balance with where it's supposed to be now.

Feel free to prove me wrong though.

[Kyonye]

Originally Posted by Angel_of_Death

True, all other weapons cause grief with their spalsh damage...

Which is why Lasher's do lash damage.

and if you shooting an enemy and then lashed your ally then you should get some grief.

[Krinsath]

Due to the slow orb speed and the fact that it's supposed to be suppression fire, the Lasher would be a weapons lock and be more of a threat to the Vanu than everyone else, which is why the don't lash friendlies was put in to begin with.

People are trying to over-nerf the Lasher, which is merely suffering from a coding oversight that has already been fixed on the test server and from the fact that 2000+ people are using it.

The JH is largely the same as it was before (bug fix aside), now everyone calls it crap. Why? Because it no longer has tons and tons of people at every battle using it.

[Firefly]

Not true. Since I Boycott The Vanu! I only see Jackhammers. And now that I don't do that massive bang-right-click-bang with how many shots? it's fine. I still die to way-way-way amounts of Jackhammers since I am an infiltrator primarily, but I'm JUUUUUST fine with that. Cuz my Cycler and rexo keeps them at range.

Have a nice day!

[GreyFox]

If it would lash friendlies it would quikly become a weapon noone uses.

[EarlyDawn]

I say no, it's absurdly overpowered but turning it into a useless grief machine is not the answer.

[SuperBallz]

Man, Yall make it sound like i was telling yall to mob into a spawn room Lashers blazing and not give a damn about Grief when the nme is shooting back getting lashed and hit and getting grief.

Now I May not be sure about this but, when u get hit directly it hurts, right?

But If U don't get hit directly u get lashed and u get splash damage if it hits close to u?

Cycler = Direct Hit, No Splash
Guass = Direct Hit, No Splash
Pulsar = Direct Hit, No Splash
OK

MCG = Direct Hit, No Splash
JackHammer = Direct Hit, No Splash
Lasher = Lash and Splash
A Little Off

TR AA = Direct Hit, No Splash vs ground troops(Coming Soon)
NC AA = Direct Hit Or Splash vs ground troops
VS AA = Direct Hit + Burn Or Splash and Burn vs ground troops
Getting Off

TR AI = Large CoF(RoF = Average)
NC AI = Medium CoF(RoF = Depends)
VS AI = Small CoF(RoF = Good)
Off

TR AV = Haven't Tried It
NC AV = Haven't Tried It
VS AV = Haven't Tried It

This Is Just My Opinion.
I Have Seen Numbers, I Am Talking BattleField Usefulness.

[Seer]

Super, the lasher does not do splash damage. And vanu using the lasher do get grief--the orbs are slow enough that you can be firing them and a friendly could step into their path. You've practically made the descent into incomprehensibility with your latest post. It has largely nothing to do with this thread.

[LimpBIT]

yeah it kinda didnt super. Try to stay a little bit more on topic. It should do splash damage just had to say that. Would be to unfair if it didnt.

[BadAsh]

Originally Posted by SuperBallz

Cycler = Direct Hit, No Splash
Guass = Direct Hit, No Splash
Pulsar = Direct Hit, No Splash
OK

MCG = Direct Hit, No Splash
JackHammer = Direct Hit, No Splash
Lasher = Lash and Splash
A Little Off

1. The Lasher does not do any splash damage.

2. The �lashing� effect was intended to help compensate for the slow travel speed of the weapon�s energy projectiles and give the weapon it�s unique functionality. The lashing does not fully compensate for the faster TTK of both the JH and MCG. While the lasher user is �spraying the area� with slow lashing orbs the JH or MCG user is �spraying the lasher user�. If you have a JH or MCG and are facing a Lasher 1v1 and get killed, you got out fought. Yes, I said that right. You got out fought. You managed to either not move or move in a predictable pattern so the slow orbs actually hit you while at the same time managing to miss with the hypervelocity rounds of the JH or MCG. Congratulations.

The biggest thing the Lasher buff did was alter the populations. So now rather than 3 Lashers getting rushed by 8 Jackhammers, you have 8 Lashers getting rushed by 3 Jackhammers. With the new Rexo and slightly buffed new Lasher some people are just going to have to rethink the old tactic of: Select triple shot, rush/surge in, point, and rack up easy kill. For these guys the easy game just got hard. Hence the chagrin.

[Indecisive]

Heh. When was the last time you played tr or nc dude? The lasher is absurd. I have no fucking clue what possested them to do such a thing.

You cant shoot at your feet and kill everyone around you. Sick.

Yuo got served!

[KIAsan]

Originally Posted by Gohan_VA

The lasher is absurd. I have no fucking clue what possested them to do such a thing.

Ok, I couldn't resist any longer. How about sheer incompetence is what possesed them.

Originally Posted by SporkfirePS

The "don't lash close" and the "don't lash friendlies" features are redundant, just as you supposed. Removing the "don't lash close" restriction will likely result in almost no change since the projectile barely has time to create a lash before that limit was reached anyway...but I'll go ahead and remove the "don't lash close" constraint because it's just simply not important anymore.

Not a lot of thought went into this decision, it was just an oh, by the way...... Now what was it they said about good intentions, something about paving and the road to hell?

[SuperBallz]

Originally Posted by Happy lil' Elf

Grief is there to stop, *gasp* griefers. You know, the morons that enjoy running around shooting people on thier own team for amusement? Griefing is, in fact, against the rules so in effect, yes, grief is there to stop people from breaking the rules.

Grief is not there to balance weapons. It never has been. Does it need to be factored in when trying to figure out if a weapon is useless or not? Unfortunately yes, it does.

Santa's Lil' Helper, Sry For The Fustrated Snap(Lost the happy but the happy is back)

This Isn't A NERF Thread.
Not a Bash The Lasher.
There r plenty of threads that do that.

So thx for the feedback.

[Happy lil Elf]

Santa's Lil' Helper, Sry For The Fustrated Snap(Lost the happy but the happy is back)

This Isn't A NERF Thread.
Not a Bash The Lasher.
There r plenty of threads that do that.

So thx for the feedback.

Meh I was just pointing out that grief was put in the game to stop people from griefing (which is against the rules). However grief does need to be factored in when looking at balancing a weapon. Putting that much grief on a weapon designed for indoor combat (and inarguably that's what HA is supposed to be for) would ruin the weapon.

So what is the solution for the Lasher? I don't pretend to know, but I do know that making the lash affect friendlies would make the gun virtually worthless. Who knows, it might even still be useable in coordinated firing teams. Of course the level of coordination this would require does not readily exist in PS except in a select fre outfits. In either case, it would put the VS at a serious disadvantage in comparison to the other two empires.

Honestly, I'm begginning to agree with people who say HA is a just plain flawed concept. In a game with respawn timers, putting weapons in that can kill someone that quickly is, at least in my opinion, a mistake.

The more time I spend in fights as a grunt the more I'm begginning to believe that the TTK on virtually all weapons is too short, or rather that it's too short for the limited amount of mobility you have as infantry. Now this is obviously an opinion that is more than open to debate. However the thing I loved about various other FPS MP games is that if someone gets the drop on you oftentimes you actually live long enough to come back from that disadvantage and if you're good, win. In Planetside you can literally die before you even react to the first shot landing. While that isn't exactly a bad thing by itself, the fact that there are imposed repsawn penalties, that increase with the number of times you die, strikes me as ludicrous.

Would making it take longer to kill people solve that problem? Possbily. But in a game where you can easily have 90-100 people fighting over the same small (at least relativley small) base, if people [i]didn't[/i die quickly it could easily break the game.

So what is the answer to this particular issue I have with PS (and one of many I might add)? In reality, there probably isn't one. Quick kills and respawn timers are some of the foundation blocks the rest of the game is built on, you can't really change them without it affecting a great many other things, not that those will probably ever change significantly in any case.

My own personal solution is simply to spend every moment I can in a Lightning or vehicle of some sort

[BadAsh]

Originally Posted by Happy lil' Elf

Honestly, I'm begginning to agree with people who say HA is a just plain flawed concept. In a game with respawn timers, putting weapons in that can kill someone that quickly is, at least in my opinion, a mistake.

The more time I spend in fights as a grunt the more I'm begginning to believe that the TTK on virtually all weapons is too short, or rather that it's too short for the limited amount of mobility you have as infantry. Now this is obviously an opinion that is more than open to debate. However the thing I loved about various other FPS MP games is that if someone gets the drop on you oftentimes you actually live long enough to come back from that disadvantage and if you're good, win. In Planetside you can literally die before you even react to the first shot landing. While that isn't exactly a bad thing by itself, the fact that there are imposed repsawn penalties, that increase with the number of times you die, strikes me as ludicrous.

I have to disagree with the argument that in other FPS games people live longer. In Battlefield 1942 you can drop anyone in the game with 2 �head shots� with any weapon including a pistol and with 1 single shot from a sniper rifle. One player can kill 5-7 with 1 clip of ammo. Grenades in BF 1942 KILL everyone in the blast radius. So it�s not splash damage radius it�s a killing radius those weapons have. In RTCW there are �head shots�, insta-gib grenades, one shot sniper rifles, and critical knife stabbing from behind (instant kill).

Also in BF1942 many of the lighter vehicles and even tanks tend to be killed with single bomb hits, mines, or tank rounds. With mines and critical panzerfaust shots an infantry soldier can instagib a Tiger or M-10 (heaviest tanks in the game).

PS has no head shots and no critical hits on personnel or vehicles. In PS you live longer and have more time to react.

PS is a one of a kind game that loosely fits into the FPS mold. Players of PS tend to be more of the thinking type as opposed to the twitch style players and are quite proud of this fact. I�ve even seen the term �death matcher� used in a derogatory manner to describe that different style of play. It�s seen as �lone wolf� mentality and is frowned upon. Cries of �get some support certs� can be heard here in the PSU forums as well.

The reality of this situation is that most PS players don�t spend all their time mastering weapons. They spend time flying, driving, cloaking, scouting, hacking, etc. So logically the guy who ONLY kills will eventually get better at it. And here is where I see a chunk of the �problem� with HA.

HA is slightly more powerful than MA. So a very skilled �death matcher� armed with HA will kill a highly skilled �death matcher� armed with MA. After the fight the MA will be dead and the HA will walk away with 20-30% of his health/armor intact. This is hardly domination, this is more like �squeaked by� with a win. The above example considers optimum range for the HA weapon. Stretch the fight out over medium or long range and MA actually has the faster TTK. So again this is hardly HA domination.

The real problem is that most PS players invest their time building other skills rather than pure death match type skills. Some few players do develop these death match skills to high levels. So what I think you guys are bitching about are these players that are actually better as something than you are.

The notion that any unskilled player can grab HA and dominate and thus �ruin PS� is pure BS concocted to soothe the egos of players who got owned in a fight. It also soothes the frustration players who just are not good with tactics.

The other day I was guarding the back entrance to a base with about 7 other guys. We all had lashers. Some NC goober opens the door, surges in, and promptly gets melted. I managed to land the �killing shot/lash� so he sends me a hate tell about how I need the lasher to kill and have no skill. Um, NO, you rushed 8 guys with weapons drawn� he would have died using that tactic against 8 guys with beamers.

Later on during that same siege I find a NC player crouching on top of a box in one of the rooms under our base. He has a punisher and only reacted to me when I started hitting him with lasher orbs. I strafed to one side while keeping my aim on him. He died quickly. Then I get the hate tell. �I wish we had an uber-weapon too�. Um, moron, you sat still, did not move, did not shoot until you started getting shot, managed to miss with every single shot with your punisher and then blame the lasher on your getting owned? BTW, the Punisher using the plasma nade then full auto mode still can consistently beat down a Lasher in a 1v1 duel.

The other day some moron whined to me about the Lasher claiming it could allow anyone to kill 3 players in a 1v3 situation. So my buddy and I challenged him to some 2v1 dueling. He accepted and we loaded him down with all the lashers he could stash in his locker. My buddy and I equipped ourselves in agile armor with sweepers. We did not use medic kits or implants, but allowed him to use whatever he wanted. He went with Lasher, Rexo, Surge, medic kits. Anyway, after spanking him 8 times in a row he left. I was getting tired of waiting for his surge to reactivate anyway. Oh, and neither of us died. Not once.

Um, n00bs, it�s not the lasher. It�s not HA. It�s you not being as elite as you think you are. Spend less time flying in your reaver, driving your AMS, and snooping around in your MAX or infiltration suit and learn to AIM and STRAFE as Infantry. Otherwise quit whining about getting owned as infantry. I know this is common sense, but someone had to freaking say it.