Take note, CEP exp across th board info from SJ. - Page 3

NapalmEnima · 2003-02-27, 03:05 PM

Clarifications:

BEP and CEP aren't devided among the people in the platoon/squad. They're multiplied.

If I'm on my own, and I cap a guy worth 170 (a number I pulled from one of the screen shots), I get 170.

If I'm in a squad of 10, and I cap that same guy, WE ALL GET 170 (within some fixed distance of me). Multiplied.

Same deal with CEP. If my squad caps a base, I get 100 CEP (just to pull a number out of the air). If I'm in a platoon, and someone else caps that base, all the commanders get 100 CEP (again, within some distance).

So any suggesting of giving away X% of the BEP you would have otherwised earned would be adding a totally new mechanism to BEP distribution.

If a Galaxy pilot wants BEP, squad up with the gunners, and be sure to provide covering fire once your passengers have left.

From one of the Gamespot videos, it looks like the gunner positions have close to a 180 degree field of fire... so a pilot should be able to overlap the tailgunner and a side gunner on whatever target they feel should be fired on.

I'm guessing Galaxies have UNBELIEVABLY HUGE trunks. Lots of ammo. LOTS. All you need to do is plant that sucker where it's gunners can do some damage and keep the galaxy in good repair. 20mm slugs are no joke. We have 20mm GRENADE LAUNCHERS now. 20mm slugs with a high rate of fire are going to Blow Stuff Up Real Good.

I wouldn't be suprised to find that if a galaxy and a vanguard got in a straight-out slugging match, the galaxy would win (with the overlapping field of fire thing). Maybe not, but my money's on the Galaxy. Sure, 150mm shells are going to HURT, but a Galaxy will be able to take a serious beating. I'm expecting them to actually be tougher than the heavy tanks.

So I don't think galaxy pilots will be short on BEP. Quite the opposite.

FURTHERMORE, it's entirely possible that you won't see many fully crewed Galaxies. That "15" number is only for TR with their buggy. Without a vehicle in the hold, that number becomes 12. So if a whopping 2 passenger spots are empty, you've got a full squad, pilot included. So once you've reached your destination, everyone bails, and away you go. Pilot first, grunt second.

AND FINALLY: If all you want to do is ferry people around in a Galaxy, you don't need BEP. All you need is a Galaxy cert (and maybe engineering). So why even care?

Airlift · 2003-02-27, 06:05 PM

AND FINALLY: If all you want to do is ferry people around in a Galaxy, you don't need BEP. All you need is a Galaxy cert (and maybe engineering). So why even care?

Why care? Because I do, that's why. BEP and CEP comprise the principle reward scheme in this game, and it would be a huge oversight to exclude pilots from such a large part of the game. Advancement is a huge part of persistence and if it is not balanced, there is something wrong.

I want to spend most of my time ferrying people around in a Galaxy, and I want to earn more BEPs and buy more certs with them. Would it matter if someone who wanted to be an engineer could not advance by being an engineer? Does he need more certs beyond engineering, adv engineering, and hacking? Why should he care? Same reasons I don't want to get passed up by everyone else in my platoon for doing my job.

If you can't fill up your galaxies and still give the crews experience, than either the Galaxy or the Exp system is broken. Neither is acceptable.

NapalmEnima · 2003-02-28, 04:49 PM

BEP is awarded for battle success. CEP is awarded for command success.

A transport pilot isn't doing either of these things (baring various exceptions).

If there were some support EP (SEP), then absolutely, I think transport pilots, medics, and egnineers should be earning it directly for doing their jobs. But there isn't.

I actually disagree, in principle, with awarding BEP for ANT-schlepping. I understand why they did it and I'm not disputing their decision, but I see it as a hole in an otherwise pure system.

On the other hand, the devs have hinted at non-EP rewards for various things. I wouldn't be at all suprised to find that these are medals for various accomplishments. And I wouldn't be suprised to find that some of those accomplishments include being a transport pilot. Something measured distance or time.

This won't get you certs or implants, but recognition.

Airlift, I think you've been conditioned, through all the other games you've played, that doing good things = in-game reward.

That's obviously not the case for pure transport pilots. I too could see it as a flaw, but I can see why they haven't added Yet Another EP System. Development time vs Fun. I've been in this same boat, in T2. For the longest time, a vehicle pilot (tanks and bombers) didn't get any points for all the things their gunners blasted. Sucked to be me. I'd have kicked the holy hell out of their team... my tank SURVIVED. Big green boomies fell like rain... the enemy died in droves till a whole horde came for us, drawing numbers away from their flag defense. I felt that I was instrumental in our victories, but my score didn't reflect it at all. On some levels this bothered me. On other levels, my GUNNER (the guy with the rediculously high score for blasting everything they had into kibble) knew which side of the bread was buttered. And that was good enough for me: Recognition, not points.

And I still maintain that a pure transport pilot doesn't need BEP.

Airlift · 2003-02-28, 05:43 PM

But Napalm, the squads that take the objective would be a lot less successful if they never get to the battle. I contend that by sneaking my troops around to the back door and shoving them out of the cargo hold directly contributes to the outcome of the battle and should provide advancement for the pilot.

You're right, I am conditioned to expect to be rewarded for doing something worthwhile in a game. A game with no rewards really isn't a game, it's just a toy.

I'm willing to wait and see, but I'll lead a pilot revolt if I can't get BEP for piloting. Either that or I just won't drive a Galaxy, which was my biggest draw coming into the game.

Hife246 · 2003-02-28, 06:13 PM

Like he said.. U want BEP (and I personlay think this is a VERY easy way) team up with ur gunners and just lay down fire on teh ground or even air (depending on whats happening and what ur attacking)

There is good that comes out of it... THE BASE IS CAPTURED!!!

If ur gonna be so Obsessed over BEP's then don't be a full time Pilot, A galaxy only uses 3 Certs. U'll have more than enough for guns and amors and all the other goodies.

Bah

Anyway.. food for thought

Airlift · 2003-03-01, 09:04 AM

You don't seem to be comprehending what I'm saying here. I am not obsessed with BEP. I don't want them to flow like water and raise my character to leetness like the tide. However, if you deprive support classes of advancement because they are support classes, then you have a shitty advancement system and it needs to be fixed.

OmnipotentKiwi · 2003-03-01, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by Airlift
You don't seem to be comprehending what I'm saying here. I am not obsessed with BEP. I don't want them to flow like water and raise my character to leetness like the tide. However, if you deprive support classes of advancement because they are support classes, then you have a shitty advancement system and it needs to be fixed.

As long as you are in a squad, I don't think there will be an issue.

Airlift · 2003-03-01, 11:15 AM

The reason I was complaining is the squad math doesn't really add up. I thought it was strange that a squad was less than a loaded galaxy (even without the vehicle) until they announced that there was reward sharing on a platoon level, which meant that you could put two infantry squads together with 1 squad of Galaxies and escorts and still allow the support personnel to reap the benefits of the assault.

I'm gonna shut up on the subject because there's no way to tell if my concerns are well-founded until they finish the game. It could be true that the Galaxy will slaughter infantry like an angry AC-130 gunship and even take out tanks as Napalm suggests. I guess I'd be ok with that, but I was thinking it would be more of a support ship used to deliver infantry and provide close air support for an attack.

TheJrade · 2003-03-02, 12:42 AM

Just had another thought for all you poor, bep-reaved (get it, be-reaved, har har!) Galaxy Pilots out there. I am a member of an outfit on the Vanu side called the vindicators (check us out at http://www.geocities.com/dviddleff/the_vindicators if yer looking for an oufit, we're good people)

We style ourselves an airborne assault outfit, and while we haven't thought much about the Galaxy pilots not getting any BEP, we may have accidentally solved the problem. The first squad in our first and second platoons is the air transport squad, containing the Galaxies and, ta-da! The escorts as well!

Any Galaxy flying into a hot LZ alone deserves to get it's big flying hiney shot off. Just squad up with the Mosquitos and Reavers flying with you and BAM! its TheVede! (if ya don't read PC Gamer, nvm that last joke) No, wait, I mean BAM! it's TheBEP, particularly if your escorting buddies are any good at dogfighting and/or strafing on the way/after the drop.

Another thought is, in terms of skill and/or attention, how much is required when piloting a Galaxy, so how much BEP *should* you get for it.

I envision two times when a character would fly a Galaxy for any extended period of time. First, when first starting out, to get a little semi-leechy BEP to get your first few certs. And second, towards the end of a character's "career" as a commander, orbiting near a battle-in-progress, monitoring the comm chatter, directing supporting fire, ferrying troops to where they are most needed, etc.

TheJrade · 2003-03-02, 01:01 AM

Just had another thought, as relates to ferrying troops not requiring much skill...

There are times when dropping troops does require skill , such as Airlift's hot drop "in the back door of the base." I mean, if yer guys have to hike a mile after you boot em out the door, any idiot can do that, but if you deftly maneuver into the teeth of murderous AA fire, your gunners ice a uppity tank and you skillfully land right on the Wicked Witch of the TR, ruby slippers and all, that ought to be worth some BEP! Perhaps something to the effect of the game's engine tracking how close to some imaginary epicenter of an enemy base you dropped off each character/vehicle, and awarding you BEP based on that.

i.e.
(defenders_certs_within_perimeter) / (distance_to_epicenter) - (air_vehicles_in_squad) = BEP awarded

OmnipotentKiwi · 2003-03-02, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by Airlift
The reason I was complaining is the squad math doesn't really add up. I thought it was strange that a squad was less than a loaded galaxy (even without the vehicle) until they announced that there was reward sharing on a platoon level, which meant that you could put two infantry squads together with 1 squad of Galaxies and escorts and still allow the support personnel to reap the benefits of the assault.

I would just refuse to offer your services unless you are added into the squad you are transporting. In either case you described, if you are 1/10, then you should get fairly good BEP. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Destroyeron · 2003-03-05, 05:44 PM

It really doesn't matter to me...lol. I'll just be doing my job. If I get BEP, great! If i get CEP, wonderful! I'll just be doing whatever I do, lol.