Artillery Support - Page 3

Lunarchild · 2011-07-19, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Treerat

<long post>
Another part of that problem is how Planetside handled large-scale communications. One of the big "checks" if you will on modern artillery (and the reason why more and more of it is self-propelled) is that when the artillery shoots it gives away it's location. And once the location of a hostile battery is known it has a short life expectancy due to the enemy directing counter-battery fire from it's own artillery as well as air strikes, special operations units, and other forces towards that area to destroy it. Key to that is for someone who notices the artillery or can figure it's flight path (and thus it's point of origin) being able to relay that information to the people in charge so they in turn can allocate assets to the enemy batteries destruction and direct those assets to the enemy artillery's location. It is at that communications part that Planetside failed.

So, in Planetside 2, could not the automatic mission generation system help with this as well? It could automatically generate missions to take the thing out I'd think.

But I agree that it would be a whole lot more interesting if there are more proper ways to counter artillery.

ShowNoMercy · 2011-07-19, 07:59 PM

keep flail range, nerf the accuracy, make it 3-5 round burst, and the driver or another person has to get out and manually reload shells. Additionally the vehicle would not be re-loadable while in the firing position, it would have to be in the driving/loading position. Ideally it would take about 20-30 seconds between firings that way and the driver would not be able to hit the same target twice unless directed to do so by an additional laz targeting.

Sound fair? would make for some sweet bombardments and at the same time prevent door camping. Artillery should be used on open field targets anyways since there is no destructible buildings.

Volw · 2011-07-19, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

Yes. Because Flail spam is a huge game-breaker right now. In fact, last night I was playing and my Reaver got shot down by a Flail round. And then when our Galaxy was taking off, it got capped by a Flail round. And when I was on Searhus down at Iva, they had a billion Flails parked up on the rim of the volcano hurling magical artillery down into the base. And the other day, and the day before that, and a week ago, when I was playing the game lagged out because of all the Flail Trails in the sky.

Trollin' are we?

You may have to L2R if not.

The biggest issue with artillery can be seen on Flail example.

If it's powerful, then it *will* be spammed and therefore made OP.

If it's sub-par, to balance out 'spammability' of it, then no-one will bother using them.

In case you don't remember or simply didn't play 'back then', Flail used to be quite powerful (not OP) after it was released, which lead to having Flail spam everywhere. Having main exits and vehicle terminals Flail spammed was SO much fun. Almost like BFRs.

At some point Flails got nerfed and since then, they're not being used as much. Even though they have their uses, 2 Reavers can most of the time do the same job - much faster.

nathanebht · 2011-07-21, 09:34 PM

Good discussion on an interesting topic. Artillery and mortars are such a part of a large battlefield. And I remember fondly, being perched on a mountain near a battle in a Flail.

However, I feel that artillery would not be good for gameplay. Its not fun being killed by something with no warning and which you can't defend against. Perhaps being able to activate a personal artillery shield along with an automated "incoming" alert would help?

MrDawkins · 2011-07-21, 09:43 PM

What about the old scorpion? Fire it over the wall, detonate, watch spray take everyone to half HP and run for cover.

Little did they know they were never safe

FIRE AGAIN!
killspam

Talek Krell · 2011-07-21, 09:53 PM

Didn't they mention mortars as a potential vehicle upgrade? I rather liked that idea, especially with combat being moved away from bases. I could see rigging out a deli with a gun and a mortar to support an infantry assault.

Peacemaker · 2011-07-21, 10:03 PM

No flail. Id love to see mortars, and howitzers though. Tow behinds. Unable to move unless a tow vehicle does it.

BronzeElemental · 2011-07-21, 10:43 PM

Mortars seem very popular.
TR get a multi-barrel mortar and/or cluster rounds.
NC get one giant bigboy mortar.
VS get one fruity plasma damage-over-time deal or something.

cashfoyogash · 2011-07-23, 12:49 PM

First off I am going to list the certain types of artillery missions;

Counterbattery fire: delivered for the purpose of destroying or neutralizing the enemy's fire support system.

Counterpreparation fire: intensive prearranged fire delivered when the imminence of the enemy attack is discovered.

Covering fire: used to protect troops when they are within range of enemy small arms.

Defensive fire: delivered by supporting units to assist and protect a unit engaged in a defensive action.

Final Protective Fire: an immediately available prearranged barrier of fire designed to impede enemy movement across defensive lines or areas.

Interdiction fire: placed on an area or point to prevent the enemy from using the area or point.

Preparation fire: delivered before an attack to weaken the enemy position

Suppression fire: that degrades the performance of a target below the level needed to fulfill its mission. Suppression is usually only effective for the duration of the fire.

Field artillery is the single most important piece of equipment in war fare, it always has been. Used in every conflict excluding the panama conflict due to the tree canopy. You cant have a mass war simulation game and exclude indirect fire.

So what you are killed by something you cant see. Take cover and call in for counterbattery fire. Shout at your chain of command till you get the attention of someone to take notice of the enemies artillery halting your outfits assault. This isnt call of duty if you want to kill things you can only see go play that and run around and spam shotgun shells every where. This game provides all types of support roles it should include the most important support role ever.

The flail was a horrible attempt at field artillery, it should be available without a vehicle mod and not able to fire from across the whole map. It should be able to be safe well behind your front line. It should not be able to kill anything in a close proximity to it. Meaning artillery in PS2 should only be effective when firing from long distances so you cant park it outside a base door and pummel it. The shells should only arm after traveling so many meters.

Artillery in PS2 should be more dependent upon a forward observer. It should also require something more advanced then a simple laze pointer so you can change how high the shells will arc. It should involve something that takes skill to use so not everyone can pull one and spam it. Artillery is necessary in this game though. You should be able as a commander to order an interdiction fire mission on a bridge or hill to keep the enemy from traversing over it or taking up position on elevated terrain.

BronzeElemental · 2011-07-23, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by cashfoyogash

First off I am going to list the certain types of artillery missions;
/snip loads of good stuff
Artillery in PS2 should be more dependent upon a forward observer. It should also require something more advanced then a simple laze pointer so you can change how high the shells will arc. It should involve something that takes skill to use so not everyone can pull one and spam it. Artillery is necessary in this game though. You should be able as a commander to order an interdiction fire mission on a bridge or hill to keep the enemy from traversing over it or taking up position on elevated terrain.

This is basically everything I wanted to say about it. Without artillery it doesn't feel like a true battlefield to me.

Aractain · 2011-07-23, 01:25 PM

It would be cool to have some kind of intel vehicle that can pinpoint enemy artilery positions from their incoming fire and distrobute that info (a red icon on the map) to players to go kill.

Bags · 2011-07-23, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by ShowNoMercy

keep flail range, nerf the accuracy

Yes, we need to make the flail even MORE likely to massacre friendlies.

Vancha · 2011-07-23, 01:31 PM

I could see artillery existing, but it'd need to be short enough range that you're likely to have LOS/access to it. Imagine a morter on the hill east/northeast of Nzame for example.

cashfoyogash · 2011-07-23, 02:15 PM

LOS on artillery defeats what artillery is... its behind the lines support indirect fire... the only thing that needs to change is the fact you can use it to spam doors with flail from 50m out. The shells need to have to travel a certain distance before they become armed. The self propelled artillery should not be an all terrain vehicle and as fast as the flail. It should be slow like an ams.

It should require a forward observe to pinpoint grid coordinates and relay them back to the battery. Where the gunner would then be able to input them into some kind of device and then fire the gun. You should be able to change the elevation of the barrel and the size of the charge used to be able to arc the shot as needed.

If you make it so the artillery is more than just a point and click weapon itll make it so only a select few can master its proper use. Regardless field artillery being used as a long range spam shot weapon is necessary.

FastAndFree · 2011-07-23, 02:22 PM

If the field artillery was not a normal vehicle but rather something that you deploy on the field like an AMS, and then operate while standing next to it (being vulnerable to everything from cloakers to snipers to intrepid aircav)...

Well that's never gonna happen, but I like the idea