Nades

[NapalmEnima]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

As for what nades. Smokes (while performance killers) are a huge part of infantry tactics. It would make it more comfortable to be infantry while pushing. HE and EMP are must. Not sure about flashbangs, would probably say no to plasmas. Can't see them adding anything to the game, really..

Plasmas served a very useful purpose in PS1 wrt DOT-ing cloaked enemies. IIRC, they did the same damage as a flag, but over time rather than instantly.

And they were much more annoying.


I'd like to see all kinds of crazy grenade types. Cameras, smoke (maybe forgelight can hang, maybe not), decoys (for different sensor types), sticky targeting beacons that assist missiles and such in getting a lock.

Maybe a sludge grenade that slowed people down? Meh. "Paint" grenade that clung to cloakers for A While.

[Bruttal]

Sticky grenades! all timed and if you hold them to long they blow up in yer hand. and Not Instiant though, need to have an animation pull the pin release the other pin and pull back yer arm. but not a fast animation then you can decide how to throw it.

[CrystalViolet]

I like the CS system. Limited nades, switch to, throw, same as PS1 but faster.

[Redshift]

i'd like holstered grenade, but i'd be fine with a dedicated holster slot.
I'd also just like to timed grenades so you can cook them if you want, or blow your arm off, whatever

[Xyntech]

Some ideas for ES grenades:

NC - High Yield Grenade
A larger explosive charge, but with no shrapnel. 25% more damage than a standard grenade, but a 50% smaller blast radius.

TR - Cluster Grenade
A small charge that scatters a bunch of micro grenades. 50% larger blast radius, but a 25% reduction in damage.

VS - Shock Grenade (?)
I have the least solid idea here. I'm thinking 25% smaller blast radius and 15% less damage on the initial blast, but then it creates an electrical arc that does slightly reduced damage to everyone it jumps to, up to a maximum number of targets.

These would be in addition to the standard common pool grenades, which would provide more rounded solutions to help balance the weaknesses of the ES grenades.

[BorisBlade]

Yeah they gotta be selected. There are waaaaaay too many people in a ps fight to just let em be a quick button tap. Imagine playing ps1's indoor fights with quickbutton nades, every person would be spamming grenades like mad. You hate the thumper? imagine everyoen with one on a quick use button right along side their main gun. It would literally become Grenadeside indoors. You would be praying to get the thumper back when you see how bad it would be with quick button 'nades. But, they dont seem to make decisions based on good gameplay so, who knows what they will do.....well actually whatever BF does, they will do that.

[EASyEightyEight]

I'm all for switching to the grenade first, then throwing it. I mean, we should expect holster times, but along with many of the "modern inspirations" Sony is incorporating into PS2, weapon switch times might be among them (quick switch from big guns to pistols for example.)

I like the wind up bit, and would love to see it stay, but I do want the minimum distance to be a quick underhand chuck. Grenades should be tactical and deadly in my opinion. If you're standing on one when it goes off, you should be severely wounded at the least. Since most people won't be able to just pull out a med app and heal through spam anymore, grenades will recover a purpose lost in PS1: forcing people out of cover. Either stay behind your crates and eat the blast, or get away and face my stream of lead.

Instant throws just invite the spam. If we're going to throw a grenade, we should be vulnerable for the few moments we take to make it count. I want to discourage Quake 3 strafe fights as much as possible in my MMO tactical shooter. I do think we should have 2-3 to make count though, with more on the guys dedicated to shooting $#!%.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

You hate the thumper? imagine everyoen with one on a quick use button right along side their main gun. It would literally become Grenadeside indoors. You would be praying to get the thumper back when you see how bad it would be with quick button 'nades.

I don't want a quick throw button, just a quick equip. Also, since we won't have free form inventories, I assume that grenades will be extremely limited ammo, with maybe 1 or 2 for agile and 2 to 4 for rexo.

As far as the thumper, I hope they fix that to be a bit more like a real world grenade launcher. Less useful than the current thumper at short range, more useful than the current thumper at medium to long ranges.

Grenades would take over for the thumper for indoor combat, while still being a lot less annoying (due to limited ammo and no quick throw), while the thumper would still be somewhat viable indoors and much more viable in longer range outdoor engagements.

Edit:

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

I'm all for switching to the grenade first, then throwing it. I mean, we should expect holster times, but along with many of the "modern inspirations" Sony is incorporating into PS2, weapon switch times might be among them (quick switch from big guns to pistols for example.)

That's actually probably the simplest and best solution to improving the equip time for grenades. Every weapon gets a "switch to" time, which ignores whatever weapon you are currently holding and bases the entire time to switch on what item you are pulling out.

Big weapons always take a little while to unholster. Rifles and shotguns take a little less time, but still a noticeable amount. Pistols take very little time and grenades take even less, but after you throw the grenade it will take a little while to switch back to a rifle or whatever.

Presumably small pieces of equipment like REKs or Med and Engi tools (or whatever the equivalents are in PS2) would have unholstering times similar to a pistol.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Xyntech

That's actually probably the simplest and best solution to improving the equip time for grenades. Every weapon gets a "switch to" time

You end up with a matrix to define the switch times between weapon choices for balance reasons. Changing from a sniper rifle to grenade or AV to grenade don't need to be the same as a pistol to a grenade or knife to a grenade or back. That is for every weapon unholstered you have a time to switch to something else. This came up in a few threads like the dual wielding thread when people realized that balancing holster times for weapons needs to be complex for balancing reasons to allow flexibility.

[CutterJohn]

I'm fine with single keypress grenades. This does not mean they must be instant, I just want a single button to access them, since thats all that is needed.

I want all of you to hold something in your left hand. A jug of milk should work. Now grab a soda can and hold it near your hip with your right hand. Now pull that soda can away from your hip, press the top with your thumb, and throw it. See? You can toss a grenade without switching weapons too. If you refuse to remember that PS grenades were button activated, then stick your index finger out from your left hand and pull an imaginary pin.

Sure, A game like BF2/BC2 does the grenades too fast. Its almost instant. But you don't need to holster your gun to do it.. Its a one hand operation. Maybe if you have AV or some other extremely heavy weapon you can say you have to put it up to pull a grenade. Thats fine.

I just don't like unnecessary button pushes.



As for grenade types..

-Smoke(high capacity ventilation makes it not very useful indoors, because seriously that would be annoying).
-EMP
-Frag
-Limpet(I.e. sticky AV grenade, good vs MAXs and vehicles.)

[Marth Koopa]

I want Team Fortress Classic grenades, both function and the types it has.

4 second delay to explosion, can be held while counting down, does not interfere with use of guns

Concussion grenades can be used to disorient enemies, or propel yourself long distances at blazing fast speeds with proper timing and positioning

Gas grenades that intoxicate anyone that comes into contact with it, distorting vision, making everything green, and providing false information to your interface

MIRVs, grenades that explode into more grenades

Caltrops. Leave tacks all over the floor to impede enemy movement, from feet to tank treads

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Marth Koopa

4 second delay to explosion, can be held while counting down, does not interfere with use of guns

uh oh. Be careful with that line of thinking. We have balance to think of. Should someone wielding a jackhammer be able to pull a grenade while shooting? Or a MCG user? (Ignore realism, just think from a balance perspective if such an operation makes sense). Again I don't want to over reference the dual wielding thread but a lot of people stressed limitations like that. Being able to pull a grenade while holding a pistol or a rifle is fine to me. Being able to throw a grenade while simultaneously shooting a MCG into a hallway is not okay with me. At that point you can explain it however you want such as "it's a 2 handed weapon so you must holster that weapon before holstering a one handed grenade weapon". That kind of logic is fine and balances heavy assault for me.

Same goes for say a sniper rifle. Logically a person using a sniper rifle has no need to access a grenade. If they are in a situation where they need a grenade they should not have a sniper rifle out in their hands.

Also what's your definition of "interfer[ing] with use of guns"?

[Marth Koopa]

I was joking

TFC is known for its super grenade spammy gameplay

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Marth Koopa

I was joking

ah. Still I made good points. I have friends that enjoy TF2 gameplay so I'm never sure what some people's preferences are with regards to these things. There are always people at the extremes.

[Captain B]

Specializing with the skill tree could make quicker grenade use more balanced, as well.