End Game - Page 3

yonman · 2011-12-12, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Sifer2

It's funny that a lot of people are just casually shrugging off the topic. Truth is this is in fact a reason a LOT of people left the game in the early days. Being a MMO the game was interesting for more than just FPS players. While the FPS player is used to playing the same map for years straight with no real goal other than to kill time. The MMO player craves progression and a sense of purpose. Planetside 1 utterly failed to provide that beyond the BR which maxed out fairly quickly. And so a lot of the more MMO crowd ditched the game. You only had the FPS players left an then some of them bled over time to other shooters.

I think SOE has figured this out already though. Which is why they are adding resources an talking of sandbox style stuff for future updates.

I think Sifer's aiming towards what I had in mind in this topic.
We all agree that PS1's never ending war was appropriate. We're also all 8 year veterans and our opinion is kinda biased - we LIKE the game as it is.

However, like it or not, we're the minority. We are the tiny portion of the original population of tens of thousands. Most of that population left the game for various reasons - one of the major ones (I think) being "but ye guhds! it has no end! what's the fraking point?!".

We can congratulate ourselves for having excellent taste in games and grumble about those elf-butt-lovers and how they "don't get it" but in the end, planetside needs pops. No pops -> planetside dies.

So back on track here - how does one motivate players that are looking for motivation in what is essentially a cruel never ending cycle of victory and defeat?

Xyntech · 2011-12-12, 09:08 AM

MMORPG fans were used to paying a monthly fee. FPS fans were not. The fact that PS2 will be F2P will probably go a long way towards attracting a lot of people who won't be put off by endless battles.

On the flip side, having deep skill trees that take years to unlock all the content will probably at least somewhat improve peoples sense of having something new to do over time.

But really, think about what end game content is in an MMORPG. It's the bullshit that you do after you have gone through the other bullshit of leveling up. Planetside is all about having a level playing field, so really, everything is end game content.

So what does end game content really translate into in PS2? It translates into content, not end game content. Just content. Pure and simple.

In that sense, I wholeheartedly agree that Planetside deserves more content. Hopefully the three year plan helps on that front. PS1 got very little new content after launch. PS2 needs to keep the game fresh, while never imbalancing things with bad ideas poorly implemented like BFR's.

Shogun · 2011-12-12, 09:12 AM

do it the way, every other fps does it!

by leaderboard competition!
have it listed, how many missions one has accepted and sucessfully solved!
so you can go for 1 million successful genblows or genholds, or base caps or whatever, and show that off to your friends.

works for every multiplayer fps with 4-32 players and keeps them playing the game until they are number one on the internet charts.
should work for planetside as well.

we still dont know much about how the mission and command system will work, but i think there will be some merits, trophys and a detailed leaderboard involved.
where is the difference to normal fps games? people load a map and play until one has won. in ps you dont need to load a map, you go to a base and fight there until the base is yours. it´s only that planetside doesnt interrupt the game after a win, you don´t get a congratulation you won popup, and instead of restarting another map you move on to another base ingame.

Crator · 2011-12-12, 11:39 AM

Some people play MMOs so they can grind quests/NPC mobs to get gear so they can go up against the big bad instance bosses in end-game raid content.

In Planetside, you don't really grind. You play the game (grind) to get more battle ranks so you can get a larger list of equipment to help with different situations you will be put in on the battlefield. As you get closer to the highest BR you reach what could be considered the end-game; Which means you are able to play with more equipment to help the overall battle that is always raging...

SuperMorto · 2011-12-12, 01:27 PM

Planetside 3 will be the end game, just as PS2 has been for PS.

MgFalcon · 2011-12-12, 03:01 PM

Achievements that can otherwise become ribbons and medals to wear on your avatar would be the only sensible "endgame" content that would be implemented for a Mmofp, imo. Like a re-amped version of the current achievement/ribbon in PS, more intricate and harder to achieve the ribbons.. Maybe even titles in front of names.

But in all reality I will not be happy until my character can bestow a big-ass cape!

Gwartham · 2011-12-12, 03:25 PM

A gazillion people seems to be quite content playing the endless battles of Modern Warfare, Battlefield, and Halo.

Pretty sure this is the market this game is going to attract from, not so much the wow kiddy element.

As a long time MMORPG player, from m59 upto current, I can say the best games I ever played were UO and Daoc, where the content of the game was player create battle, much like planetside. This game will garner RPG players like me.

This game wont attract the atypical WOW rpg player, and honestly, while its a large market, doesnt hold a candle to the fps market.

Less wow in this game the better.

ThGlump · 2011-12-12, 04:12 PM

Endgame? Its to kill others, what else do you expect?

In PS there is no endgame handled to you by the game. Endgame is created by your squad leader (continent leader if you solo), giving you the ultimate goal for that moment.
We are lucky. In other mmo you must grind for long time before you get to endgame, here we get into endgame the right from the first moment we log in.

btw winning and then reseting its even worse "whats the point fighting" scenario, if there is no persistence.

TheRagingGerbil · 2011-12-12, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by ThGlump

btw winning and then reseting its even worse "whats the point fighting" scenario, if there is no persistence.

That right there.

I think the new Nanite/Auraxia/Metal resource system will be enough to motivate people to always fight. If I login and don't have access to my jackhammer anymore because some purple spandex wearing sissys took my weapons plant in the middle of the night I will be pissed and want to fight to get my tech back.

Lonehunter · 2011-12-12, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

When you talk about endgame in planetside I think about the power or things that a max'd out player has available to them.

Exactly. That's really our only version of it. End Game content in PS2 will just mean more varied access to customizations, unlocks, gear, etc. But remember they've said it will take over a year to full maximize one "cert tree"

Players who have played longer may be considered rich depending on the resource system. Having to spend those on upgrades may be tough early but not if you store it, or can get some from outfitmates.

Gwartham · 2011-12-12, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by TheRagingGerbil

That right there.

I think the new Nanite/Auraxia/Metal resource system will be enough to motivate people to always fight. If I login and don't have access to my jackhammer anymore because some purple spandex wearing sissys took my weapons plant in the middle of the night I will be pissed and want to fight to get my tech back.

BorisBlade · 2011-12-12, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Justaman

Still, an ultimate objective with a desirable reward would be nice.

Motivation never hurt anyone. Like a cut-scene (streamed from the game server so we can't just rip it from he game client and watch at leisure) showing what happens story wise when that specific faction wins. A bad-ass short movie

Or even, every time one faction wins more than once in a row, it progress's a story of how the end of the war goes (new chapter each extra streak)

The vast vast vast majority of people will play for a few hours each evening, thats it. This isnt somethin you are doin 24/7 nor does it stop when you leave, so those other 21+ hours you are not there, the war is still going. Putting in "win conditions" very often wouldnt work or its just boring matches like other games, and putting them in to where they happen every month or so is still meh. You personally will spend such a very small fraction of the overall time, you dont really have any impact on it hardly. Esp when the 2am crews can come in and revert all you just did. Plus after you see these goofy win videos once or twice its just a boring "match over, game restarting" screen you see on all those other boring fps's.

The wins come in the forms of small scale capturing of areas, or versus certain groups, and the moving up to towers and bases, and then, maybe, even conts. Although last they said, conts will not be somethin you can really capture so easily if contested by even number foes. Although i hope thats not quite true. In PS1, capping the cont was the win factor. It usually lasted an hour or so, maybe longer if it was slow. But that was basically the reset after the win.

As others have said, PS is about having fun playing the game, not about boring grinds to get to a goal. If your goal is to grind or get a goofy video or "win screen" then go play one of the many other boring games out there. But if you want to play a game for no other reason than to *gasp* have craploads of fun, then PS is where its at.

I had massively more fun in PS1 once i hit the BR cap (and my outfit mates did too) than when we was still leveling. We could focus on having tons of fun instead of worrying about getting the most xp just to grind boring levels. I want a fun game, not interested in grinding or an epeen flexer via a win screen.

Raka Maru · 2011-12-12, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Crator

Some people play MMOs so they can grind quests/NPC mobs to get gear so they can go up against the big bad instance bosses in end-game raid content.

In Planetside, you don't really grind. You play the game (grind) to get more battle ranks so you can get a larger list of equipment to help with different situations you will be put in on the battlefield. As you get closer to the highest BR you reach what could be considered the end-game; Which means you are able to play with more equipment to help the overall battle that is always raging...

I really like this distinction/definition.

Mezorin · 2011-12-13, 03:37 AM

End game is kind of a crappy concept anyways. You have to grind, grind grind and do "work" to get to the fun freaking part of the game in World of Warcraft. For what? So you can beat up a dragon with 30 of your friends to get gear so you can do the next dragon, maybe some instanced PVP, and get a magical sparkle pony that lets you fly.

In PlanetSide, from day 1 if you want to you get to drive a big freaking tank, or a reaver gunship around the world. You could grab a AI MAX suit that'd make an 85 Teir 13 armor Orc Warrior its bitch from level 1. Grab 3 buddies you can have an AC-130 gunship like Galaxy. You can make your character have engineer/AA 2/ Adv Targeting within an afternoon. You get to join up massive outfits like Devil Dogs or Azure Twilight, and they'll take you because from Day 1 you are raid ready if you're willing to work. When you get better, you can work your way up in those guys, or join the really specialized commando outfits.

In PlanetSide, you don't do 30 man raids against a canned dragon, you do freaking Omaha Beach with 100+ comrades, completely unscripted, un instanced, un canned pure glorious controlled chaos in a warzone. You can lose a battle against all odds, and it can still be worthy of the most glorious metal video.

So in short, PlanetSide's end game starts when you start the game up.

Quovatis · 2011-12-13, 06:00 PM

I don't understand why people are saying that having an end-game is only for MMORPG games. That's nonesense. Pretty much every FPS game I can think of has an "end-game". That is, one side wins a map, and a new round restarts. The equivalent in a MMOFPS would be similar to World War II online: once one side controls some pre-determined percentage of territory, the world resets and play continues.

I would very much like some sort of win condition in PS2, as that was a pet-peeve of mine in PS1. That is, you fight like hell for some place, and then just an hour later, it's back-hacked and your work was all but forgotten. Contrast that to WWIIOL, where I was motivated to stay up late many nights in order to help my side win an epic battle that would change the outcome of the war for the next week. That kind of motivation doesn't exist in PS, and there is really nothing to motivate me to see a battle through, as an hour from then the battle will have been forgotten. Maybe that's a good thing for some, but I personally miss it. The only thing that I can think of that comes close to this in PS1 is the special events like the empire defense event. We were all motivated to win those events, as we would get enemy vehicles for the next 2 days...an actual reward that lasts longer than a few hours.

I think the territory system in PS2 will help somewhat (i.e. slow the front line advance a bit), but it will likely remain an issue. Each side needs some goal to keep in mind other than simply "kill stuff". Yes, empires will have incentives to get resources in PS2, but in the end it doesn't really matter as you can never lose and you can never win.

But there is another side of the story (and the main reason I left WWIIOL in favor of PS). When you have a win condition like WWIIOL and the cycles last weeks or even months, it means one side has to log in and get their asses kicked for weeks on end until it finally ends. Campaigns were usually determined in the first week or two of fighting, after which it was basically a steam-roll for one side. Comebacks happened, but it was rare. At least in Planetside, you are rarely in a severely losing situation for more than a few hours.