Bring Back Stamina! Anti-Bunny Hop Petition

[Aurmanite]

Traak is a weird fellow. If he doesn't like something it's immoral, childish, idiotic, cowardly, and all sorts of other negative adjectives.

Games are games; they are not real. In fact, the whole point of playing games is to spend some time away from reality. Sometimes I just wanna jump up and down. If you can't shoot me that is your problem.

This isn't a pro-bunny hopping message. It's a pro-games-aren't-real-so-stop-using-real life-comparisons-to-support-your-poor-arguments.

K?

[xSlideShow]

Originally Posted by Redshift

If you had your mouse sensitivity up high enough you could jump and spin stupidly fast, stopping directional attacks like backstab due to lag

You could also jump a charge. So by the time they got to you the stun was up. Also shadowsteps and other stuns.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

Traak is a weird fellow. If he doesn't like something it's immoral, childish, idiotic, cowardly, and all sorts of other negative adjectives.

Games are games; they are not real. In fact, the whole point of playing games is to spend some time away from reality. Sometimes I just wanna jump up and down. If you can't shoot me that is your problem.

This isn't a pro-bunny hopping message. It's a pro-games-aren't-real-so-stop-using-real life-comparisons-to-support-your-poor-arguments.

K?

Traak playing against somebody outplaying him with ADADADA.

song chorus should have been about him:

Left right left right
Shit, i cant keep the pace
tripple netcard bitches warping all over the place.

can anybody remember the name of that song, i think somebody in HT or nova made it.

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

As for bunny hopping... So? You're fine with guys having usain bolt level sprinting abilities while wearing what looks like 100kg of armor and toting a rocket launcher, but god forbid they can jump?

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Even a full suit of steel plate armour only weighs about 1/4 of that. Same with full body Kevlar. I'm guessing the armour used by PS2 soldiers isn't any heavier. And IIRC the player running in the PS2 trailer was in Agile armour anyway. Based on the <2-second sprint we saw in the video I saw nothing unrealistic about his footspeed.

However, in PS1 anyway someone in Agile can jump completely over a standing avatar's head. That's a little over the top (pun intended ).

I have no problems with bunny hopping so long as the players can only jump a reasonable height and/or there is a logical penalty to your aim applied when jumping. I'd much rather they go this route than to re-introduce stamina.

Apparently the average vertical jump height for NBA players is ~28 inches. If that's anywhere near the max height a PS2 avatar can jump then bunny hopping won't help them much anyway. And in doing so it should throw his own aim way off, completely preventing iron sight usage and making hip-firing next to unusable outside CQC.

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

Games are games; they are not real. In fact, the whole point of playing games is to spend some time away from reality. Sometimes I just wanna jump up and down. If you can't shoot me that is your problem.

This isn't a pro-bunny hopping message. It's a pro-games-aren't-real-so-stop-using-real life-comparisons-to-support-your-poor-arguments.

K?

You're right, games aren't 100% realistic. But they are based at least somewhat on reality and include at least a few RL influences, so RL comparisons are inevitable. If I pick up a rifle, I expect it to behave generally like a rifle. And if I jump, I expect it to come with at least somewhat logical benefits (height, dodging ability) and penalties (bad aim).

The trick of course is to balance gameplay/fun vs realism. IMO Quake-style bunny hopping would be too much for PS2. Even PS1's Agile jumping ability is pushing it. Same thing with Agile's strafing speed.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Erendil

The trick of course is to balance gameplay/fun vs realism. IMO Quake-style bunny hopping would be too much for PS2. Even PS1's Agile jumping ability is pushing it. Same thing with Agile's strafing speed.

That's all I'm saying.

More skill will always win over less skill anyways.

The fact that PS2 is getting rid of PS1's random dice roles and crappy net code, as well as slightly decreasing TTK and including bonus headshot damage should keep skill an important factor in firefights.

Rocket jumps, double (or quadruple) jumping, bunny hopping, etc are all fine in the right game. I just don't think they belong in every game. Planetside is one of those games I don't think it should be in. But that's just me.

Skill or difficulty doesn't really enter into my opinion on the matter. I'll never be the most skilled player on the battlefield, but I've played the shit out of all sorts of shooters. If a feature makes sense in the overall context of a game, more power to those who can make the best use of it.

Light Assault may prove to be an avenue where a lot of skill can be displayed.

[morf]

Quick scope, quick knife, bunny hop, spartan laser, matty robe, AWP, grenade spam, ADADAD, RMP, lightsaber backstab, heavy weapons guy, BFR, spider basing, stamina to mana, pitbull spam, cannon rush - to name a few.

There will always be a game mechanic that makes you snap your keyboard in two. You have to learn it, or learn to beat it.

I'm not defending bunny hop, I'm just saying that at some point in the game, someone will learn a tactic that gives them an edge over you. When that happens are you going to learn to play or come to the forums and whine about it?

[inigma]

Originally Posted by morf

Quick scope, quick knife, bunny hop, spartan laser, matty robe, AWP, grenade spam, ADADAD, RMP, lightsaber backstab, heavy weapons guy, BFR, spider basing, stamina to mana, pitbull spam, cannon rush - to name a few.

There will always be a game mechanic that makes you snap your keyboard in two. You have to learn it, or learn to beat it.

I'm not defending bunny hop, I'm just saying that at some point in the game, someone will learn a tactic that gives them an edge over you. When that happens are you going to learn to play or come to the forums and whine about it?

Like the time I figured out you could hide an ams and router on an island and set the warp at the top of the ledge in the gen room behind the generator (with the assistance of a few flying vs maxes) for one particular base. And then for added fun a second set of ams and router would hide near a controlled tower giving a continuous stream of outfit maxes to daisy chain into that gen room for quite sometime.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Xyntech

That's all I'm saying.

More skill will always win over less skill anyways.

The fact that PS2 is getting rid of PS1's random dice roles and crappy net code, as well as slightly increasing TTK and including bonus headshot damage should keep skill an important factor in firefights.

Rocket jumps, double (or quadruple) jumping, bunny hopping, etc are all fine in the right game. I just don't think they belong in every game. Planetside is one of those games I don't think it should be in. But that's just me.

Skill or difficulty doesn't really enter into my opinion on the matter. I'll never be the most skilled player on the battlefield, but I've played the shit out of all sorts of shooters. If a feature makes sense in the overall context of a game, more power to those who can make the best use of it.

Light Assault may prove to be an avenue where a lot of skill can be displayed.

Decreasing time to kill, they're decreasing, it means less. :P

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

Decreasing time to kill, they're decreasing, it means less. :P

Yeah, typo, you knew what I meant :P

Originally Posted by morf

I'm not defending bunny hop, I'm just saying that at some point in the game, someone will learn a tactic that gives them an edge over you. When that happens are you going to learn to play or come to the forums and whine about it?

I'll adapt and overcome. But if it becomes the soul tactic that everyone uses, potentially destroying lots of other diverse, fun and interesting tactics, and especially if it looks fucking retarded (bunnyhopping), I'll certainly hope the dev team is present and competent enough to get rid of it.

Bunny hopping has never made me get mad in a game, just depressed and not want to play. I'm talking about in more realistic shooters of course.

I'm just not a big fan of exploits in general. There's a fine line between creative use of game mechanics and blatantly exploiting flaws in the game.

Skill always wins, no matter if there are massive flaws in the game to exploit or not. I'd rather see a well balanced game than a novel tactic be kept. Proper game balance goes a lot deeper than just JackHammer vs Lasher vs MCG. Ideally, everything should be as balanced as possible with everything else. Exploits generally severely fuck with that balance. Some games take those exploits and embrace them as full fledged parts of the game. That's great, but it would tend to be very hard to make work in a game as massive and diverse as Planetside.

[Aurmanite]

Originally Posted by morf

Quick scope, quick knife, bunny hop, spartan laser, matty robe, AWP, grenade spam, ADADAD, RMP, lightsaber backstab, heavy weapons guy, BFR, spider basing, stamina to mana, pitbull spam, cannon rush - to name a few.

There will always be a game mechanic that makes you snap your keyboard in two. You have to learn it, or learn to beat it.

I'm not defending bunny hop, I'm just saying that at some point in the game, someone will learn a tactic that gives them an edge over you. When that happens are you going to learn to play or come to the forums and whine about it?

Played a lil JKII hey?

[Traak]

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

If something is immoral, childish, idiotic, cowardly, and all sorts of other negative adjectives he doesn't like it.

Fixed that quote for you.

[Helwyr]

All the snipes at Traak, makes me think some of you really are lamers that think bunny-hopping and ADADAD exploits of netcode actually make for good game play...or are you just winding the guy up?

Hopfully they have come up with another means of preventing such crappy game play without Stamina. ..otherwise yeah, bring back stamina.

[Marth Koopa]

When was the last time a game had actual bunny hopping? Team Fortress Classic back in '99?

I hate it when children mix up "useless sporadic ADD jumping" with bunny hopping.

[Traak]

Nah, no stamina. They will just counter it with infinite-stamina hacks like they do now.

I would like to see soldier speeds that were more variable than crouch-walk, walk, and run. This would be especially useful for cloakers who want to manage their speeds to balance visibility and velocity.

And, yeah, they do avoid the issue by attacking me. It's like saying "NAMBLA members should be shot!" Are they going to say "I'm a NAMBLA member in good standing, and I disagree."? No. They'll counter with "Dang, you're homophobic! What a Phillistine! What a bigot!" etc.

It's standard operating procedure. Try to use ridicule against someone else in lieu of saying "Yes, I'm a cheater/hacker/exploiter, so I want that mechanic in the game."

[morf]

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

Played a lil JKII hey?

I was a renowned ass-fighter, yes.