Free to play and spies. - Page 3

Princess Frosty · 2012-01-10, 04:17 AM

Honestly there's no reasonable way to stop this, you could do it by IP address but people can use free proxies or even rent a real cheap one, plus that screws over anyone sharing an internet connection behind a router. With unlimited account creation the only hope is to tie each account to a credit card but I doubt that will happen somehow.

Most of the serious commander talk is going to happen in teamspeak/vent servers anyway, a great deal of the PS1 comms for the TR in Werner was done through various TS servers where main outfit leaders would come together and coordinate the large scale attacks, the zerg would just follow them.

basti · 2012-01-10, 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by NCLynx

Could have sworn Higby said somewhere that there wouldn't be a command chat as we knew it in PS1. The new "command chat" would be a chat between all the current squad leaders and or outfit leaders. Something along those lines.

Works. Means only those who need have access, and not a giant bunch of people that just craptalk all day. /sl was already succesfully used to lead.

Kouza · 2012-01-10, 04:29 AM

The game currently costs 15 dollars a month.. There are currently people (STILL) who get multiple accounts for purposes such as these, or simply send a tell, or contact some one cross empire. When you have 1000 people on each side, the leak will get out. That`s why back in the day raid targets were not announced... Until they were leaving the Sanctuary, and this was strict! I remember being in BWC (Being very Tight KNIT), we were told mostly everything. I remember to this day specifically the first raid, I asked the target and I was told I would not know until the galaxies were lifting off the ground.

p.s even with that... people still found out on the other empire.

Hamma · 2012-01-10, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by NCLynx

Could have sworn Higby said somewhere that there wouldn't be a command chat as we knew it in PS1. The new "command chat" would be a chat between all the current squad leaders and or outfit leaders. Something along those lines.

Originally Posted by basti

Works. Means only those who need have access, and not a giant bunch of people that just craptalk all day. /sl was already succesfully used to lead.

Indeed!

I seem to remember this also I just don't recall where from.

NCLynx · 2012-01-10, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Hamma

Indeed!

I seem to remember this also I just don't recall where from.

At least I'm not the only one who remembers it.

Graywolves · 2012-01-10, 01:16 PM

The only valuable intel a spy can grab is the location of a gal drop, which is easy to avoid and will happen anyways without sanctuaries.

Quantumplation · 2012-01-10, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

The only valuable intel a spy can grab is the location of a gal drop, which is easy to avoid and will happen anyways without sanctuaries.

This isn't even close to true by half. Destination for a gal drop, the types of forces that you intend to field, how a tank/weapon has been customized (this data isn't readily apparent except on very close inspection, and by that time it's too late to account for it in the battle strategy), where people are staging up so that you can get the jump on them, the path that troops are going to take to stage an ambush, long term strategy (how commanders plan to push the front, what their motivations are, ie territory grab or resource denial, etc). Intel is one of the most valuable resources a commander can have at his disposal.

Figment · 2012-01-10, 07:59 PM

The presence of spies was, is and will be overrated.

In the end, it is the zergoutfit voters who follow a guy with no brain that you should worry about.

Besides, a lot of people confused enemy scouts sitting in warpgates and watching population shifts, with spies on their empire.

Not to mention 80% of all empires being mr. & mrs. Obvious: if you are a commander with any tactical sense whatsoever, then every time you look at the map, you predict enemy moves. You predict what the enemy zerg will do according to nearest base principle, you look at what other enemy outfits are online and what they typically do in these situations. If unsure, you set up some CE that will create hot spots on continents that have likely targets to be attacked, put some scouts in the most farmable/defendable bases and voila... 75 to 80% of the "surprise" assaults have been logged, calculated for and catalogued by enemies well before the enemy even considers it themselves.

Take a certain person many Wernerians will know was often 'leading' the TR (I would call it misguiding, but whatever). Even when you tell him what will happen if he makes a certain move he's about to make, he'll throw a tantrum and do it anyway. For instance, he invades Sungrey, while NC were busy farming Keelut, TR were low pop and only had Hossin, Solsar and Oshur left and the two techs/bio north Cery. Meant VS would take a while to get both, but would win as they already had the capital. So I told him that if he'd do Sungrey then, NC would be thrown out of Keelut once the resec teams left it alone. After which we'd kick their arse, NC would want "revenge" (knowing the CR5s) and not go back to Keelut as that would be suicide, while Dagda would be too predictable or potential ghost (like any benefit conts would be), due to the other VS home cont fight. Oshur not being interesting enough to fight due to the rules - plus lack of opposition for first island, would probably largely be ghostable by a few. With our options available, the most likely new target would be Ghanon, Hossin. A guaranteed fight which would then be joined by VS because they wanted a fight (while they'd ghost Solsar), after they kicked TR out of Cery north as the TR would have to recall as well. "No", he said "how could I possibly know this?"

Then he gets angry at you when you tell him "I told you so" three hours later, because I "planned this doubleteam" and it was all my fault. Of course they got or nearly got zeroed then. Can't recall exact details, but it was so obvious anyone could see it coming. But not this person.

Quantumplation · 2012-01-10, 08:08 PM

I think in this particular thread, the impact of spies is being overemphasized, but espionage isn't only about troop movements. It's about troop compositions, motivations (*why* they're attacking an area will often be very important in PS2, for example resource denial vs staging point for a new offensive etc.), talents and recruitment efforts, getting to know another commander in order to be able to predict his actions and reactions, etc. As one of the leading roles for recon in Eve Online for a while, Intel is one of the most important things you can have in a war. And, true, Planetside 2 will be hardly as deep as Eve Online, but there's still a lot more to it than I think you realize, figment.

Figment · 2012-01-10, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Quantumplation

And, true, Planetside 2 will be hardly as deep as Eve Online, but there's still a lot more to it than I think you realize, figment.

Than I realise? I'm talking about PlanetSide 1 in the post above. I'm well aware the motivations and logistics will differ for PS2, but that's just a matter of experience gaining over time.

People are very predictable and a lot of outfits do things out of routine, both on your and enemy team. My personal goal was to always try to surprise the enemy with unexpected strategies and use of vehicles and succeeded many times due to just that. A lot of these strategies were assimilated in the repertoire of other outfits, even on the enemy team.

I'm perhaps more aware of enemy psyche than you realise. Infils have a lot of time to observe a lot of things and consider enemy weaknesses others don't, after all.

Quantumplation · 2012-01-10, 08:33 PM

=P Didn't mean to offend, you were just downplaying the role of Intel pretty heavily, so I thought maybe you didn't realize it's tactical significance.

Figment · 2012-01-10, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Quantumplation

=P Didn't mean to offend, you were just downplaying the role of Intel pretty heavily, so I thought maybe you didn't realize it's tactical significance.

Not really, intel is everything! Just that the source of intel is not usualy down to spies. At least not in PS1: past experience is the main source of intel, base distribution the second, zerg in default mode only leaves a few 'rogue' outfits as loose cannons, next to some ghosters and drainers. And those dangerous outfits always prioritised Interlinks, DSCs and Tech Plants. They often even had particular favourites. Combined with knowledge of which fights are currently going (ie. which empires are busiest and who's resec teams are busiest in particular), you can deduce the most likely targets.

/c chat voting gives you a very good impression of the rationale used by most players. AMP stations and Bio Labs are always last resort, as are hard to reach spots for large groups, such as cave links. Combinations of the previous are even more unlikely to happen. As were large scale invasions through tactical drains. Typically if you wanted to do those latter, you'd have to do the hard work yourself and then apply for reinforcements if it actually seemed to work. People prefer to be constantly fighting, you can use this to your advantage, but it is also often the problem which enemy resec teams use to their advantage.

If you would pull off something like that and you'd create a defensive farm, people would flock to you in no time. Which is also why every resec team knows just how crucial it is to get somewhere well before it turns.

People looking at maps, especially those of conts you are not on, are therefore absolutely crucial to the long term fight.

TheBladeRoden · 2012-01-10, 09:13 PM

Now I feel bad for having three characters on Gemini, but it's Sony's fault for merging the servers

Effective · 2012-01-10, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

They often even had particular favourites.

All Hail Chuku.

Stopping people from spying, is impossible. Get over that little fact and just accept it for what it is.

CutterJohn · 2012-01-11, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by Quantumplation

=P Didn't mean to offend, you were just downplaying the role of Intel pretty heavily, so I thought maybe you didn't realize it's tactical significance.

While PS players can learn some security habits from EVE, the fights are polar opposites. PS is far more chaotic, and people can die and be back in the fight 5 minutes later, with a completely new setup. It will be nothing like the fleet doctrines of EVE, nor will battles be planned days in advance.

Plus, at the end of the day, the stakes just aren't as high in PS. All thats at stake is pride, really. You can't lose months or years worth of effort.