Copy/Paste - Page 3

ArmedZealot · 2012-03-12, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Arrow

...a lot more rewarding then saying I mowed down 4 people cause i was able to sway my gone and spray them down with in a matter of 3 seconds.

But thats exactly what happened in the PS video....

noxious · 2012-03-12, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

This may not be what you guys are focusing on but from the point of view of disgruntled BF fans, it isn't about whether or not the low TTK does or doesn't require skill, of course it requires twitch skill, but the lower the TTK goes, the more twitch skill matters over any other skill, such as tactical preparation, anticipation, etc.

Likewise, the higher the TTK goes, the more the ability to aim matters over anything else. Why bother with tactical preparation, anticipation, etc, if you can just charge with impunity into battle and, as soon as someone starts to shoot at you, return fire and win simply because you're a better shot (this is pretty much how I played Planetside when surgile was all the rage)?

Effective · 2012-03-12, 05:35 PM

I'm completely against ironsights, it's certainly not going to keep me from playing the game (it's free lol). I personally feel that it's a bad mechanic to slow down combat. Really this is all speculation as I haven't touched the game yet, but still.

ArmedZealot · 2012-03-12, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by noxious

Likewise, the higher the TTK goes, the more the ability to aim matters over anything else. Why bother with tactical preparation, anticipation, etc, if you can just charge with impunity into battle and, as soon as someone starts to shoot at you, return fire and win simply because you're a better shot (this is pretty much how I played Planetside when surgile was all the rage)?

The difference here (in agreement with this) is that a low TTK rewards prep, getting the jump, and positioning more that a high TTK does. Because the first to get the shot off is more likely to win.

Arrow · 2012-03-12, 05:36 PM

the only reason it happened in the ps video was cause there were 3-4 of us TRx focus firing targets down with barely any of us missing. but you see when he goes one on one with him vs. multiple targets it gets hectic fast and its not spraying and praying. D2A says it perfectly.

Death2All · 2012-03-12, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by noxious

Likewise, the higher the TTK goes, the more the ability to aim matters over anything else. Why bother with tactical preparation, anticipation, etc, if you can just charge with impunity into battle and, as soon as someone starts to shoot at you, return fire and win simply because you're a better shot (this is pretty much how I played Planetside when surgile was all the rage)?

Maybe because some people don't find that to be enjoyable? Maybe some people find it to be mind numbing and repetitive?

You essentially just said, why bother to use my brain at all when I can just kill somebody instantly. Is that really what people want PS2 to degenerate to.

And to compare Planetside's surgile days to CoD/any other game with a high TTK should earn you a swift kick to the nuts. They are nothing alike. Besides, PS1's surgile days were more reminiscent of Quake/Unreal Tournament.

Aurmanite · 2012-03-12, 05:38 PM

You are wrong about weapons firing quickly in Planetside. Go check out the SMG's/LMGs in other games and report back.

Watch the video Arrow posted and tell me about the MCG's CoF blooming too much.

I played Planetside for a long time, but I don't see it as an extension of myself the way many 'veterans' do. I can see the game for what it is, free from the nostalgic, backwards looking, emotionally reasoned hangups many people posting on this forum are afflicted by.

That's not to say I don't/didn't love the game. I am a fanatic...I'm just reasonable.

By the way, Battlefield was here long before Planetside.

Stardouser · 2012-03-12, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by noxious

Likewise, the higher the TTK goes, the more the ability to aim matters over anything else. Why bother with tactical preparation, anticipation, etc, if you can just charge with impunity into battle and, as soon as someone starts to shoot at you, return fire and win simply because you're a better shot (this is pretty much how I played Planetside when surgile was all the rage)?

At least in the case of BF3, the weapons shoot so straight that aim is a lot less relevant. You rarely need to improve the quality of your aim by crouching, ADS, stop moving, etc, you just need to get your sight to the target faster. This isn't a TTK issue so much as a lack of deviation and sufficient recoil.

Originally Posted by Effective

I'm completely against ironsights, it's certainly not going to keep me from playing the game (it's free lol). I personally feel that it's a bad mechanic to slow down combat. Really this is all speculation as I haven't touched the game yet, but still.

There must be some kind of jargon here that I don't yet understand. Are you literally against iron sights or does "iron sights" stand in for some larger issue I don't recognize as a non-PS1 vet?

ArmedZealot · 2012-03-12, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

There must be some kind of jargon here that I don't yet understand. Are you literally against iron sights or does "iron sights" stand in for some larger issue I don't recognize as a non-PS1 vet?

Iron Sights is aiming with the iron sights of the gun. What BF3 and COD use to decrease COF and decrease movement speed. They become the go to thing to use even in close quarter combat.

Stardouser · 2012-03-12, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Iron Sights is aiming with the iron sights of the gun. What BF3 and COD use to increase aim and decrease movement speed. They become the go to thing to use even in close quarter combat.

Oh, you aren't talking about iron sights specifically then, but the mechanic of aiming down sight OR, if your gun has a scope, scoping in. Now I get it.

So whereas in PS1 where you simply crouch, in PS2 you would aim down sight? Or both? And some people are against that?

roguy · 2012-03-12, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

So whereas in PS1 where you simply crouch in PS2 you would aim down sight? Or both? And some people are against that?

Yeah... Depressing isn't it? Imagine how immersive 1000 players circle straffing each other would be...

Stardouser · 2012-03-12, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by roguy

Yeah... Depressing isn't it? Imagine how immersive 1000 players circle straffing each other would be...

Well, you can still circle strafe...anyway, I'm not sure which side to take yet but I have to ask...is this more an aesthetic concern than a balance issue? Seems like crouching would stop your movement as much as ADS would?

Death2All · 2012-03-12, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

You are wrong about weapons firing quickly in Planetside. Go check out the SMG's/LMGs in other games and report back.

Watch the video Arrow posted and tell me about the MCG's CoF blooming too much.

One thing to keep in mind with the MCG is that they eventually nerfed (or I guess buffed?) it's CoF to reduce it. Which they should've never done in the first place. It was fine where it was, in the current state of PS it's nearly impossible to miss with the thing unless they're really, really far off.

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

By the way, Battlefield was here long before Planetside.

Yes, it did but BF wasn't the juggernaut back then that it is now. The devs are clearly taking features and mechanics out of that game and clearly putting them into this one.

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

I played Planetside for a long time, but I don't see it as an extension of myself the way many 'veterans' do. I can see the game for what it is, free from the nostalgic, backwards looking, emotionally reasoned hangups many people posting on this forum are afflicted by.

That's not to say I don't/didn't love the game. I am a fanatic...I'm just reasonable.

I'd have to question your fanaticism then. Anyway who's played this game for an extended period of time (myself nearly 9 years) has become emotionally attached to the game and would certainly see it as an extension of themself, based on how much time they'ved played/the memories they've had.

People on these forums act like it's so wrong that we want a game that we've come to know and love for several years to stay relatively the same, and not be bastardized as some kind of CoD/BF rip off in an attempt aid SOE's resurgence into the game market. Some people truly want the game to simply be retextured and then re-released. And there's nothing wrong with that.

People hold a high allegiance towards this game and they've been through thick and thin with it. To say that people who want the game to remain the same are backwards and unreasonable is well...Backwards an unreasonable. People love the game for what it is and they've kept continuously coming back because of that. Just because BF does things that are amazing doesn't mean every game should. All that does is further monetize an already monetized FPS gaming market.

A veteran player shouldn't be berated and ostracized because they enjoyed a feature in the previous game. Everyone has an equal opinion, just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it should be cast aside.

noxious · 2012-03-12, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by DeeTwoEh

And to compare Planetside's surgile days to CoD/any other game with a high TTK should earn you a swift kick to the nuts. They are nothing alike. Besides, PS1's surgile days were more reminiscent of Quake/Unreal Tournament.

I did not compare, I contrasted. These are fundamentally different things.

Originally Posted by DeeTwoEh

Maybe because some people don't find that to be enjoyable? Maybe some people find it to be mind numbing and repetitive?

You essentially just said, why bother to use my brain at all when I can just kill somebody instantly. Is that really what people want PS2 to degenerate to.

That isn't what I said at all. I said that in Planetside I took advantage of the way the game was built (long TTK) to allow myself to dominate by brute force (charge into battle and when attacked, respond with better aim to achieve victory). Was it repetitive? Sure, but excellence in one skill allowed me to eschew the importance of all others. This kind of strategy does not work in a game with low TTK, you charge into battle without first assessing the tactical situation and you die. Ergo, you must think; it is the opposite of mind-numbing.

The focus on TTK is a rather overblown. On the high end of the spectrum, there are games like Tribes Ascend which obviously require a lot of skill and intelligence in order to succeed, and on the low end, games like the classic Rogue Spear or the more modern ArmA2 also require a lot of skill and intelligence. A lot more goes into designing a game that is compelling and which requires a healthy mix of skills and intellect than whether a guy dies in one second or ten seconds when you shoot at him. The purpose of my entry into this thread was to point this much out; skilled people will keep winning. People that relied too much on one skill (sustained aiming ability) in Planetside will suffer, but that's the old too-many-eggs-in-one-basket problem. It appears that such people will be exposed in Planetside 2 as the frauds that they are

Stardouser · 2012-03-12, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

By the way, Battlefield was here long before Planetside.

Er...BF1942 came out in 2002, Planetside was...2003 right? And BF3 is vastly different from BF1942/2/2142, the old BF series is dead and replaced. So Planetside was around long before the current BF style was developed.