UK PCGamer Article Details - Explosives on Vechs and more

[EVILPIG]

Originally Posted by Shogun

don´t scan magazine articles and put them up here!

Originally Posted by basti

This.
I check with the pc gamer guys later to see if it is ok now to post scans. But till then, dont post them.

Originally Posted by Hamma

Feel free to discuss content from the article just don't post any scans until we get some kind of ok.

Did you get the memo about TPS Reports?

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by sylphaen

But do boomers really use what is known as "C4" in our reality ?


EDIT: btw, if boomers can be placed on vehicles, I do not see why it could not be placed on soldiers. There is no way the second case is more unbalanced than the first one.

If drivers cant bail and drivers cannot trigger boomers while driving, someone will always have to die for the guy triggering the boomer.
If boomers can only placed on soldiers other than yourself, someone will always have to die for the guy triggering the boomer.

As it would require 2 people WITH teamwork (with one dying in the process), it would still be possible but less OP. It would be riskier, harder and funnier; both for the bomb runner and the trigger guy.


(the grief system would prevent the abuses while still allowing it to be done)

I'm pretty sure I remember this being mentioned, C4 on people is in, whether that includes placing C4 on team mates is another matter, but I'm pretty sure I heard it mentioned that placing C4 on infantry would be in the game.

Specifically I think the purpose of this mechanic is an anti MAX weapon. Get around them, use their crappy turning against them and C4 their backs.

[headcrab13]

Originally Posted by Dart

Presumably one round in the c4 and you'll go up in a fireball? Otherwise that'll be exploited to death!

Actually they did a Mythbusters episode where they couldn't detonate a brick of C4 by shooting it Came as a surprise to me, too!

But yeah getting back on topic, I have no problem with the devs implementing something like that, but at least give the C4 a realistic kill radius so you have to bail out at least 15-20 seconds before detonation. That way people who enjoy that style of play can still use the tactic, but if they do it wrong they'll kill themselves, and if they do it right it'll be an actual challenge to do significant damage to your enemies.

[Talek Krell]

From the sound of it explosives are something you have to pay resources to use, so that should help keep C4 atv spam down too. I'm kind of split on the subject. I love that the game has the freedom in it for us to do crazy stuff but I don't want the crazy stuff to be so effective that it stops being a unique and amusing occurrence.

[dsi]

Originally Posted by headcrab13

Actually they did a Mythbusters episode where they couldn't detonate a brick of C4 by shooting it Came as a surprise to me, too!

But yeah getting back on topic, I have no problem with the devs implementing something like that, but at least give the C4 a realistic kill radius so you have to bail out at least 15-20 seconds before detonation. That way people who enjoy that style of play can still use the tactic, but if they do it wrong they'll kill themselves, and if they do it right it'll be an actual challenge to do significant damage to your enemies.

The whole point of C4 is that it can't detonate under circumstances most other explosives would...

The C4 on buggies tactic just makes me hope even more that they balance it with enter/exit animations though. If they're purposefully implementing that ability they need to balance it and stop pretending that enter/exit animations don't affect balance.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by dsi

The whole point of C4 is that it can't detonate under circumstances most other explosives would...

The C4 on buggies tactic just makes me hope even more that they balance it with enter/exit animations though. If they're purposefully implementing that ability they need to balance it and stop pretending that enter/exit animations don't affect balance.

That's precisely why we would need to avoid exit/enter animations AND be able to jump out of moving vehicles, so that C4 ramming can work.

Animations affect balance, to be sure, but generally in a way that makes the game too realism-focused and not good for gameplay.

[BorisBlade]

HELL NO to camera guided. Please we dont need anymore god awful lame phoenixes. Those were terrible gameplay wise. They are a one sided weapon, fun for the user, just aggrivation, frustration, and bad gameplay for the target. There is no back and forth with those things. Other styles allow for the target to try to hide and take cover or drive/fly to help evade getting hit, but the camera crap cant be avoided or combatted other than just flying a mile outta range. Thats bad game design.

[sylphaen]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

That's precisely why we would need to avoid exit/enter animations AND be able to jump out of moving vehicles, so that C4 ramming can work.

Animations affect balance, to be sure, but generally in a way that makes the game too realism-focused and not good for gameplay.

"Good gameplay" is definitely something very objective. I hated the RDX-demopack shenanigans in BF2142 and I hated prone/clip/OSOK knife just as much.

But if tanks can be equipped with EMP blast modules like PS1 Sunderers had EMP blasts, I'm cool with the free XP.


Good luck stopping explosives set up on a light-armor soldier jumping into a cluster of soldiers, though. (which should be allowed if it's allowed on vehicles, for the sake of "parkour terror" gameplay)



EDIT: FYI, vehicle enter/exit times in PS1 were more about balance than realism. They took only 1.5-3 seconds and in most cases, you could still bail instantly from vehicles moving at full speed. I say balance because tank drivers could not bail while vehicles with low HP (quads/flash/ATV or buggies) could bail.

My point in that even with PS1 enter/exit time mechanics, you would still be able to bail and use your explosives because you could bail from the fastest vehicles (I assume you would not use slow vehicles to play Kamikaze style). Timed enter/exit have a role to play and if you really want to play with explosives, they will likely not prevent you to play.

Please, stop saying they are about realism too. They were about immersion and balance.

[Talek Krell]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

That's precisely why we would need to avoid exit/enter animations AND be able to jump out of moving vehicles, so that C4 ramming can work.

Nonsense. If you're going to suicide run then the least that should be required is that you die.

[ThGlump]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

That's precisely why we would need to avoid exit/enter animations AND be able to jump out of moving vehicles, so that C4 ramming can work.

Animations affect balance, to be sure, but generally in a way that makes the game too realism-focused and not good for gameplay.

I never thought that suicide bombers are good for gameplay. Silly me
And you are from battlefield so you should know what stupid stuff you can do without enter/exit animations (loopzook etc). I dont want animations for the look of them, i want them for the restriction they bring (specific spot for entering, time delay, no full speed entering, full speed bailing only for passengers (drivers only for special vehicles)).

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

Nonsense. If you're going to suicide run then the least that should be required is that you die.

Ahhhhhhh...is that the problem? The reason I said that was because in Battlefield, you can't detonate from within the vehicle. So if all you're worried about is making the bomber die as well, give them the ability to detonate from within the vehicle!

Although I don't like exit animations for other reasons too.

Originally Posted by sylphaen

"Good gameplay" is definitely something very objective. I hated the RDX-demopack shenanigans in BF2142 and I hated prone/clip/OSOK knife just as much.

But if tanks can be equipped with EMP blast modules like PS1 Sunderers had EMP blasts, I'm cool with the free XP.


Good luck stopping explosives set up on a light-armor soldier jumping into a cluster of soldiers, though. (which should be allowed if it's allowed on vehicles, for the sake of "parkour terror" gameplay)

What exactly is the problem with prone? Also, knifing I think is OK as long as it's not BC2's auto-aimbot knife...

Originally Posted by ThGlump

I never thought that suicide bombers are good for gameplay. Silly me
And you are from battlefield so you should know what stupid stuff you can do without enter/exit animations (loopzook etc). I dont want animations for the look of them, i want them for the restriction they bring (specific spot for entering, time delay, no full speed entering, full speed bailing only for passengers (drivers only for special vehicles)).

I generally like FAST and unrestricted infantry movement balanced by HUGE maps(which we do not receive in Battlefield). Exit animations are restrictive infantry movement, and I just think the game is better paced not to have them and to have full speed entry and bailing.

[ThGlump]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

I generally like FAST and unrestricted infantry movement balanced by HUGE maps(which we do not receive in Battlefield). Exit animations are restrictive infantry movement, and I just think the game is better paced not to have them and to have full speed entry and bailing.

Its not some gun run game, it should be about cooperation. If you want pick someone in middle of the battle you should stop (its part of the risk to be vulnerable). You cant just drive around magically pick up passengers. Vehicle interaction is one of the biggest flaw of BF for me. I really hope they dont copy it.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by ThGlump

Its not some gun run game, it should be about cooperation. If you want pick someone in middle of the battle you should stop (its part of the risk to be vulnerable). You cant just drive around magically pick up passengers. Vehicle interaction is one of the biggest flaw of BF for me. I really hope they dont copy it.

I consider fast pickups to be "middle ground", and middle ground to always be the best way. Animations, on the other hand, are what a realism sim would have.

Another example of middle ground include 2D spotting on map only(whereas 3D spotting is arcade, and no spotting is realism).

I don't really even know what run and gun means, but I do know that being able to move quickly isn't a barrier to teamwork. With that said, understand that fighting animations isn't something I care to crusade about, I'm just saying since we're talking about it.

But as far as animations go with suicide C4ing, yeah - in Battlefield you can't detonate from within a vehicle and if you had to stop the vehicle that would make it harder, so we could just skip the issue and allow detonation from within the vehicle.

[sylphaen]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Ahhhhhhh...is that the problem? The reason I said that was because in Battlefield, you can't detonate from within the vehicle. So if all you're worried about is making the bomber die as well, give them the ability to detonate from within the vehicle!

Hey, I'm not against detonating from inside the vehicle. As long as we get EMP modules, you can load up explosives as much as you like. Otherwise, if there is no EMP, you can bet every single vehicle will set-up to auto-destruct and take others with it (including mine).

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Although I don't like exit animations for other reasons too.

Why ? (I'm interested in understanding why you think so)

In PS1, they only happened where you were stopped and it forced you to choose a safe spot because it took a few seconds to get out/repair/get back in. It is part of balance. I could care less about the animations either as long as entering/exiting vehicles has time attached to it.

Originally Posted by Stardouser

What exactly is the problem with prone? Also, knifing I think is OK as long as it's not BC2's auto-aimbot knife...

I have no problem with prone itself. It's more about how it was implemented and what it was combined with.

in BF2142, with prone and model clipping, you could prone your character in a corner so that it would become much much harder to spot (with 75% of your character's body being hidden by a box or wall) around a corner and OSOK knife a foot to frag someone.

It was one of the things that frustrated me but much less so than those two:
- instant vehicle entry along with ownership change
- RDX-bunny jumpers on no-FF servers

Originally Posted by Stardouser

I generally like FAST and unrestricted infantry movement balanced by HUGE maps(which we do not receive in Battlefield). Exit animations are restrictive infantry movement, and I just think the game is better paced not to have them and to have full speed entry and bailing.

With huge maps, more time is spent inside the vehicle while moving than entering the vehicle. The problem with BF is that when you say "huge maps and fast movement", you describe to go from flag to flag non-stop and entering/exiting vehicles non-stop. In PS, "huge map and fast movement" means going from point A (current location) to point B (the main objective) with a fast vehicle: once the location is reached, you spawn near it.

So to summarize, IMO, it's fortunate that movement in PS was not about hopping from flag to flag non-stop but about going towards one objective and capturing it (taking it took much more time than reaching it). I prefer it much more to the BF gameplay which was basically a CTF game on a small-map with many small objectives. PS has very-large maps and large objectives. It's subtle but makes a big difference.

However, I do agree with the speed of exiting from transport vehicles is important for infantry to deploy and start fighting once they have reached the objective.

[Stardouser]

What are EMP modules? I know what EMP means, but what exactly are you talking about? Tanks having their own EMP making them immune to the approach of vehicles?

I know that you think animations are balance, but balance against what? I think they lean us too far towards realism and take out too much fun. I think a nice middle ground compromise would be to have entry animations and require the vehicle to stop for people to enter, but near instant(just long enough for doors to open) bailing out even at speed.

Speaking of fun, having your spawn time increased for dying takes the fun out quite admirably. Any word on that?

If anything should be one hit kills, it should be knives, because at least with that you have to get right up on your opponent. What we shouldn't have is BC2's aimbot knife that if you just get close, it does all the work from there.

I agree that proning and the legs stick into a wall, decreasing visibility, is bad, but I'd rather have prone and deal with that problem than not have it. Seems like BF3 has this fixed though? I do have to note that a lot of people died in previous BF games because their legs stuck out too far on the other side, lol.