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View Poll Results: Which type of anti-air do you prefer?
Air Superiority Fighters 76 56.72%
Anti-air vehicles/MAXs 70 52.24%
Personal anti-air weapons 24 17.91%
Base/Deployable turrets 42 31.34%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-05-29, 08:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #31
Figment
Lieutenant General
 
Re: Air Superiority


Originally Posted by LegioX View Post
How high is the ceiling in PS 1? Its not overly stupid like bf 3 where if you go up to 1,000 ft the plane hit an imaginary wall......
400m.

Most of the time terrain had a sky of around 390-250m above it, save a few places on Searhus (Vulcano map). Rest hardly had mountains worth fighting over.


Highest point in game was Mt. Cyssor at around 573m iirc and the only place you could have an infantry battle without interferences from aircav (getting AMSes up there was a pain but possible). There was absolutely no tactical value to fighting on the mountain though.

Still quite fun if you had two groups that just wanted to have a bit back and forth infantry event. Set up a few fights between TR and NC there, till either a TR Cr5 or bypassing VS noticed some people to OS. Always fun to put up a router to the top so you could visit the highest point in PS.
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Old 2012-05-29, 09:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #32
SKYeXile
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Re: Air Superiority


i would hope the ceiling would be higher than in PS1...or at least allow you to fly higher than mountains. just make them stall if you go too high...except VS...that off course can go into space. there was major issues on ceryshen as well since the cont was like 250m above sea level.
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Old 2012-05-29, 09:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #33
Graywolves
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Re: Air Superiority


Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo View Post
I like being a threat and having a choice in how I prosecute my targets. All of them are valid. Lock-On, Flack, and Direct Fire are all unique in where they are best employed. Likewise what they are mounted on. They are all tools in a player's toolbox and will be noticed if they are absent.
This. If my team and I were without AA anywhere it would feel like we were missing something that we would definitely need soon enough.
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Old 2012-05-29, 09:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #34
LegioX
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Re: Air Superiority


i really wish the devs could answer that question (how high is the ceiling in ps2). Nothing pissed me off more than the ceiling in bf 3. I felt like i was forced to mow the lawn everytime i was flying.
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Old 2012-05-29, 09:06 PM   [Ignore Me] #35
bpostal
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Re: Air Superiority


I've got a burster that will solve this problem
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Old 2012-05-29, 09:07 PM   [Ignore Me] #36
Zulthus
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Re: Air Superiority


I personally think each empire's fighters should be the main ones responsible for taking down other aircraft; however ground vehicles and infantry should get a small AA ability due to the fact that aircraft won't always be focused on other aircraft.
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Old 2012-05-29, 09:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #37
LegioX
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Re: Air Superiority


I would really enjoy high ceilings. Hell make them real high. Nothing pleases me more than bouncing enemy air enroute to a target from above.
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Old 2012-05-29, 09:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #38
Sledgecrushr
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Re: Air Superiority


I was thinking that air superiority doesnt really ever end. Even at the end of a base take over there are still plenty of targets for air to seek and destroy. You have things like mobile spawn points to take out. Counter attacks that need to be blunted and defeated. If you like flying you should never have to come down.
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Old 2012-05-29, 09:24 PM   [Ignore Me] #39
SKYeXile
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Re: Air Superiority


Originally Posted by elfailo View Post
Air deals with air primarily. Not Wasps though, I want homing rockets to be secondary to precision aim weapons.

Second-most effective AA MAX's, third vehicles with AA weapons (which should not be flak or homing rockets), and fourth infantry with AV/AA.

AA-turrets and deployables removed from game forever and buried in the deepest possible hole they can find, trampled and humiliated with all the other bad ideas of the world.
Yea homing rockets can suck a fat one. I think the lighting atleast should be better at AA than a MAX since its a vehicle and can only be used outside, the max can hide inside and get into really germy spots like at the top of a base or tower a lighting has to stick to the ground and be a bigger target.

also the lighting when in AA mode should have far less HP than if its setup as an AI or AV tank.
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Old 2012-05-30, 02:23 AM   [Ignore Me] #40
Figment
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Re: Air Superiority


You two are only looking at the perspective from the pilot. Bad, BAD balancers. Bad.
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Old 2012-05-30, 08:44 AM   [Ignore Me] #41
Figment
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Re: Air Superiority


Unfortunately Elcyco, you'll find that this particular... rebutal of yours won't last long.

But in all seriousness, you can't demand air units to only be efficiently counterable by air2air units, in other words, other air units.

Because in that case, I'll argue using your own terms and say that AA can only be taken out swiftly by other AA.

Vehicles only by vehicles and infantry only by infantry. Aircraft will not be allowed to interfere with ground fights at all, or at most by tickling and in general air would have to ignore as they are ignored. After all, you don't want different types of units to interact, particularly not those that you use 90% of the time yourself.

Now, we got World of Tanks, World of Infantry and World of Aircraft. Just as you want it.
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Old 2012-05-30, 08:53 AM   [Ignore Me] #42
Figment
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Re: Air Superiority


Originally Posted by SKYeXile View Post
Yea homing rockets can suck a fat one. I think the lighting atleast should be better at AA than a MAX since its a vehicle and can only be used outside, the max can hide inside and get into really germy spots like at the top of a base or tower a lighting has to stick to the ground and be a bigger target.

also the lighting when in AA mode should have far less HP than if its setup as an AI or AV tank.
You forget a couple of things:

1. Why homing missiles? Because AA units that cannot change altitude or chase after you will easily lose line of sight. THUS to fight you, they need to either be able to kill you as long as they have line of sight (which is almost instantly), or they have to have a feature that allows them to go beyond line of sight. ie. lock on and forget.

You ignore also that this time, aircraft have counter measures.

Air to air can re-establish line of sight much easier than other units and should therefore... egads... be WEAKER than ground based AA when fighting AA. They should simply be stronger in aircraft damage than normal aircraft, because anything is an equal counter to itself anyway. So yes, when flying a normal aircraft, you'd lose to an AA aircraft, which itself should lose to AA more easily.

2. A Lightning is not stationary, has more armour, is very mobile, depending on rotation speed might be more easy to get on target and is a larger target than an AA MAX. It does have the benefit of having multiple weapon systems. Hence it should be less powerful than an AA MAX. Agreed. But, the main question is, should it be more or less powerful than the MBT gunner AA? And is this a second, dedicated AA gunner, a gunner with multi-weapon systems or a driver/gunner or a third crew member?

You should also consider Galaxy (Gunship) AA, which will be in game, possibly with flak. That should worry you more than an AA MAX.

Also, an AA unit cannot defend itself from other threats already because its firepower is worse and damage taken is not comparable to damage dealt. So even with equal hitpoints to a similar unit of the same class but with a different role, it would already lose. Why then would you then also make its endurance worse? If anything, it would have to be compensated by getting more hitpoints. It sounds to me you just want AA nerfed so you can kill them easily as aircraft, which is the exact opposite of what should be happening: they are called ANTI-AIR. You know, anti-you.

An AA MAX does not benefit from moving inside at all: inside you cannot fire at aircraft and an AA MAX should therefore be balanced for outside purposes. In fact, it faces more threats than anything else outside because it's completely inept against anything else and in order to fight of aircraft, it would have to be able to get outside first to be useful, even in camped situations. Unlike other MAXes, an AA MAX has to get out in the open, especially if it requires line of sight (for example, to obtain visual lock).


In conclusion, the worst options of all AA should be the A2A variant, otherwise it will hurt aircraft combat far more than vehicles and MAXes would as it would dominate the skies. Not just between fighters, but especially against multicrew units like Liberators.

Last edited by Figment; 2012-05-30 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 2012-05-30, 08:58 AM   [Ignore Me] #43
Sledgecrushr
Colonel
 
Re: Air Superiority


An AA MAX does not benefit from moving inside at all: inside you cannot fire at aircraft and an AA MAX should therefore be balanced for outside purposes. In fact, it faces more threats than anything else outside because it's completely inept against anything else and in order to fight of aircraft, it would have to be able to get outside first to be useful, even in camped situations. Unlike other MAXes, an AA MAX has to get out in the open, especially if it requires line of sight (for example, to obtain visual lock).

A max is able to use two weapons at the same time,they both dont have to be aa weapons.
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Old 2012-05-30, 09:01 AM   [Ignore Me] #44
Figment
Lieutenant General
 
Re: Air Superiority


Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr View Post
A max is able to use two weapons at the same time,they both dont have to be aa weapons.
No, but then it's weaker by choice, its weapon when dual wielded should not be weaker than other AA by design.
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Old 2012-05-30, 09:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #45
ZeroOneZero
Corporal
 
Re: Air Superiority


Kind of wish the Burster max won't harm any ally air vehicles. It's pretty stupid that you're trying to help a fellow ally, who's being attacked by multiple enemy air vehicles to be taking extra damage from a friendly. He ends up dying by a friendly AA max and then a couple of seconds later, you get this sexy message in all CAPS saying how you fucked up his killing spree or some bullshit.

You can still be great at aiming, but that won't help much when there is a shit loads of planes circling around in the air. Flak weapons should at least do minimal damage to allies or no damage at all. But that's just me....There are others who don't give a damn and end up killing their own allies.

That's why AA maxes for NC and VS pretty much dominated, while the TR had to sit back and make calculated projections, and then open fire. LAME!!
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