BR40 confirmed - Page 3

2coolforu · 2012-05-31, 11:33 PM

Right, ok. You can keep jogging back and forth for your medikits when we are assaulting a base. I'm sure that'll be totally efficient and y'know won't halt up the attack or anything. It's not like half the team buggering off to the galaxy to Grab PEELZ is going to fuck up the attack or anything is it?

The point is you could do this in PS1 too, you could run back and get medkits. You could have 9 medikits in your inventory if you wanted. You could have the healing implant if you really wanted. However having a dedicated medic was far more efficient, I imagine that's how it will be in Planetside 2.

You say you'll have super recharging shields, yet you have no idea of the shield variants, the shield mechanics, how long you have to avoid fire to regain shields. You say you'll use medikits yet you have no idea how long they take to activate, how much they heal, how long their cooldown is, how significant their resource cost is.

I mean are you really saying that every time you take a hit you're gonna go jogging of to your galaxy to heal. I'll be laughing at you all the way as I drive past in my Vanguard because you spent all your resources on your 'leet unbeatable tactic' you came up with despite there only being about 2 hours of gameplay footage of which about 3 minutes is actually infantry combat.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-06-01, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Xaine

I'm not sure if you're missing the point on purpose, of if you're genuinely not grasping the concept.

A 'super soldier' is something who can do all this at once.

All at the same time.

You can do it all eventually, just not at the same time.

It's funny how people say 'Super Soldiers' were a problem, without seeming to think of the reasons why they were so prevelent.

Tell me, if you played a game that forced you into a specific area/type of terrain 80% of the time in order to progress/advance and you had a way of specialising your character to best suit that situation, what would you do, spend 80% of your points on it? If you only spent 10% of your points to fight in that oft occurring situation, would you be justified in whining about it if others who did spend 80% on it killed you (even though you still had a chance with varying options such as keeping range, using cover, using grenades [no cert cost]), even though in the other 20% of terrain/areas, you could never lose?

Super soldiers couldn't do everything, they just did the best in situations that occurred 80% of the time because of game design.

When people want the old cert system, they want the one at release! Not the one with massive cert discounts, not the one with bundles. The one where you specialised into a particular role and then created favourites to use in different situations that can arise.

All they had to do was tweak certification costs (ie 17 points instead of 23) and 'super soldiers' would be eliminated, since changing the strategic/tactical situation was beyond their control (viz new base layouts etc).

Also, I don't ever remember doing the equivalent of all the things described in my original post at the same time in PS1, even when BR40.

Get with the times people, Super Soldier now means being best at everything in the game, not just killing infantry/maxes inside bases within a 20 metre range.

Xaine · 2012-06-01, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by p0intman

Wait until I and others abuse the shit out of it and get it done anyway. I'll enjoy drinking your tears when people are certed deeply enough to do litterally everything within the game and have enough resources piled up to where it makes no difference at all to carry extra medpacks around all the time.

Deeply certed enough so that you can do alot of things, but not at the same time. This is the point. You can't be raping people with a Chaingun, then switch to an AV weapon and rape a max after.

This is the point. You could do it in PS1, you can't do it here.

Also, people having medpacs on them the whole time? Like they did in PS1? They will have a cooldown and you'll be limited to a certain amount. Surely thats obvious?

I don't understand whats so hard about this, really. Your arguement isn't even flawed, it doesn't even get to the point when flaws could occur. Its just incorrect lol

Ailos · 2012-06-01, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

Mine and bags face:

Stunned by the fact you're only bringing it up now...

I like how Bag's bronie is pink instead of red there.
But yeah, my face is kinda along those lines too.

CutterJohn · 2012-06-01, 12:44 AM

PS1s system was flawed. You had to 'specialize', which is code for be ineffective in one area in exchange for being effective in another. God forbid people have equal access to tools so there can be a fair engagement. Super soldiers farmed vehicle whores inside, vehicle whores farmed super soldiers outside.. Pointless.

I want to face actual threats, not people who suck because they spent their points elsewhere, so they don't have the tools to compete with me in the current situation. Thats not even pvp.

PS2 at least gives everyone the basic tools. Still not ideal, but at least far better. Eventually when many people have tons of things unlocked, the fights will finally resemble something approaching fair.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-06-01, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by 2coolforu

The problem with Planetside's supersoldiers was that you could have a guy drop on your base, adv hack the tower super fast, adv med his buddies up, rep that max, drop a virus in the cc and hack an ams out, hack a 'quip term and spawn a MAX. Basically they could make use of all those certs at once which put a new guy at a huge disadvantage.

You could do that from day 1 of PS release?

3 mozzie
5 adv hack
5 adv med
3 engy
3 data corruption
2 ams
3 comet or quasar

I count 24 points spent right there, you only got 23 at release at BR 20 (which took a fair time since kill xp was tiny compared to todays) and you only have a suppressor, not really formidable in combat.

You damn the cert system after years of changes including cert discounts/bundles, increases in BRs along with free certs for term of service rewards, instead of looking at what the original implementation of it was.

SKYeXile · 2012-06-01, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

PS1s system was flawed. You had to 'specialize', which is code for be ineffective in one area in exchange for being effective in another. God forbid people have equal access to tools so there can be a fair engagement. Super soldiers farmed vehicle whores inside, vehicle whores farmed super soldiers outside.. Pointless.

I want to face actual threats, not people who suck because they spent their points elsewhere, so they don't have the tools to compete with me in the current situation. Thats not even pvp.

PS2 at least gives everyone the basic tools. Still not ideal, but at least far better. Eventually when many people have tons of things unlocked, the fights will finally resemble something approaching fair.

Were we playing the same planetside? because everybody could have access to all the required infantry certs to be effective inside and a vehicle.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-06-01, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Eventually when many people have tons of things unlocked, the fights will finally resemble something approaching fair.

Well why even bother having them then, just give everyone access to everything and have 'fair' fights right from the start?

CutterJohn · 2012-06-01, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

Well why even bother having them then, just give everyone access to everything and have 'fair' fights right from the start?

That would be my dream. I don't know who decided that multiplayer fps games must have rpg progression elements, but I've disliked it since it was first implemented.

Sadly, it hooks people and makes the devs more money, so it won't go anywhere.

Turdicus · 2012-06-01, 12:58 AM

The cert system in PS2 is a different beast from PS1 altogether. From what we saw just in this last video there seems to be dozens of specializations per class and per vehicle, and higby mentioned that the costs associated with these certs can get extremely high (did he say 100 points to purchase some?).

Lets say there is a max rank in this game and a large amount of cert points a max rank dude has. It would make sense that the certs requiring huge amounts of cert points would be powerful, and in order to get the powerful certs you would only be able to specialize in a few roles, and to be generalist in a few others. This, combined with the benefits/detriments system they have put in, makes a very dynamic and fluid cert system that is feasibly balance-able.

I see what you're worried about mister Shaftoe, but you're not seeing the big picture

Graywolves · 2012-06-01, 12:58 AM

Problem with BR40 in PS was that you could almost be ready for absolutely everything in one loadout. HA,AV, MedApp, REK, BANK, REXO, BOOMER, JAMMER, CUD, then the vehicles...

You're not going to have that possibility in PS2.

Virulence · 2012-06-01, 01:02 AM

It'll take a long time to get enough certs to unlock EVERYTHING, I'm sure, and they'll undoubtedly add new vehicles, weapons, whatever through future updates which will give you even MORE things to spend cert points on.

My concern with this system is a similar problem that LoL has with regards to champions; if you've been playing frequently and consistently for years, you'll have access to more champions, and on top of being more experienced, you'll also be simply more versatile by having access to all of those things. As a new player, it'll be a very much uphill battle (particularly without spending money) to reach that point, and it's particularly daunting to fight that uphill battle because you just can't be as versatile, especially if they have a lot of certs that do something like, "MAKES THIS THING 5% BETTER."

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-06-01, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

That would be my dream. I don't know who decided that multiplayer fps games must have rpg progression elements, but I've disliked it since it was first implemented.

Sadly, it hooks people and makes the devs more money, so it won't go anywhere.

I can see exactly where you're coming from, you want to get right into the nitty gritty fighting/strategic planning etc without having to bother with these 'unlocks', your effectiveness directly related to your abilities rather than what 'level' you are.

Definitely see the benefits of that kind of system and tbh now you mention it, it's something that's quite appealing but I think they got me hooked.

Virulence · 2012-06-01, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Virulence

It'll take a long time to get enough certs to unlock EVERYTHING, I'm sure, and they'll undoubtedly add new vehicles, weapons, whatever through future updates which will give you even MORE things to spend cert points on.

My concern with this system is a similar problem that LoL has with regards to champions; if you've been playing frequently and consistently for years, you'll have access to more champions, and on top of being more experienced, you'll also be simply more versatile by having access to all of those things. As a new player, it'll be a very much uphill battle (particularly without spending money) to reach that point, and it's particularly daunting to fight that uphill battle because you just can't be as versatile, especially if they have a lot of certs that do something like, "MAKES THIS THING 5% BETTER."

To elaborate (and sorry for doublepost): for example, if you've been playing for awhile and have all the things for a lightning unlocked, fully certed and good to go, not only are you probably simply more experienced with using that vehicle and perform better just by virtue of that, you ALSO have a whole bunch of other tools and upgrades that help you on top of the raw experience you have. So, you're a new player that's trying to play six months, a year after launch, you go "Hey I wanna drive a Lightning that looks really cool!" and then you're struggling really badly because of a lack of experience on top of a lack of certifications, and that becomes a very bad barrier of entry for people because getting involved feels very daunting.

SKYeXile · 2012-06-01, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Turdicus

The cert system in PS2 is a different beast from PS1 altogether. From what we saw just in this last video there seems to be dozens of specializations per class and per vehicle, and higby mentioned that the costs associated with these certs can get extremely high (did he say 100 points to purchase some?).

Lets say there is a max rank in this game and a large amount of cert points a max rank dude has. It would make sense that the certs requiring huge amounts of cert points would be powerful, and in order to get the powerful certs you would only be able to specialize in a few roles, and to be generalist in a few others. This, combined with the benefits/detriments system they have put in, makes a very dynamic and fluid cert system that is feasibly balance-able.

I see what you're worried about mister Shaftoe, but you're not seeing the big picture

i doubt they're going to make you heaps more powerful, those increases in performance or speed, whatever probabaly only increase your acceleration by 2% or something per point, the last point wouldnt increase it by any more, it would more just be a case of...well iv played the game long enough got most of my certs to a decent level...now its time to spend the big amounts and finish the job.

For me as a scythe pilot i would expect to be putting my points allover the place in scythe so i can be getting asmuch as an advantage as fast as i can for the least possible cert points, i would ten put some into light assault that i would be using when flying so i could bail out safely when flying without the need for inbuilt dampers...and so i can do something when not in the air :P then i will keep disturbing the points evenly in scythe to get the best return for my points. unless ofcourse one cert point is amazing that i MUST max ofcourse...but i think thats probably going to be the way to go. i dont see the point in driving around agetto scythe saving 100 cert points up to get like 2% more acceleration when with those points i could increase my speed, damage, turning and hp all by say 4% each.