3rd Person View and the F2P Market

[Atheosim]

Originally Posted by KTNApollo

3rd person has no place in an FPS (other than maneuvering through tight spaces in vehicles). People simply go into 3rd person against a wall and wait for kills because they have no skill.

1. Did anybody read the OP? How is a ten second tear down going to give you a tactical advantage? The point is that you can't flip in and out of it like PS1.

2. If you're "100% behind cover", the camera is still focused upon your avatar, so you can either see behind you (sort of) or very minimally to the sides of you. Also, calling out sizes of forces is reserved for spotting. Most of the ideas that you guys are burning this idea down for are already contained in various other mechanics already planned for the game.

3. Like another poster said, even if you did use an alt account or squadmate, the tactical advantage would be so minimal that I can't see it being ever used. Why have a motionless, defenseless target when you can have another set of guns? Or simply an invisible infiltrator spotting everything in front?

4. Showing you what you look like on a black background is not as interesting as seeing your character in the game world with the lighting effects shining upon them and with other players being active around them.

5. I think that there is minimal to no tactical superiority to be gained from this, but I'd be willing to settle with it only being usable in a warp bubble. Why not have it only usable in a warp bubble? I don't think there's a single conceivable reason that it actually shouldn't be aside from you simply not caring about having 3rd person at all.

[Blackwolf]

Originally Posted by Bags

That's fine then, I thought that's what the op wanted.

No where in his thread did he specify warp gates. In fact he indicated exactly the opposite when talking about the delay between setting up and breaking down the camera being "adjustable for tactical use". Which immediately suggested thoughts on using it tactically.

Yes people read his post, that is precisely why problems are had with the proposed idea.

[Atheosim]

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

No where in his thread did he specify warp gates. In fact he indicated exactly the opposite when talking about the delay between setting up and breaking down the camera being "adjustable for tactical use". Which immediately suggested thoughts on using it tactically.

Yes people read his post, that is precisely why problems are had with the proposed idea.

I meant that the devs could adjust it by increasing or decreasing the setup/teardown time specifically to disable any tactical advantage people might be seeking. I even said "so we can test for tactical significance" and I thought that from what the rest of my entire post said it was absolutely granted that we were looking for tactical significance to be zero.

[Atheosim]

Given my most recent clarifications, are there any further qualms with this idea? I honestly think it would be harmless.

[Blackwolf]

Originally Posted by Atheosim

I meant that the devs could adjust it by increasing or decreasing the setup/teardown time specifically to disable any tactical advantage people might be seeking. I even said "so we can test for tactical significance" and I thought that from what the rest of my entire post said it was absolutely granted that we were looking for tactical significance to be zero.

Your "clarifications" amounted to nothing.

People will abuse this system so long as they can take it into combat. The idea is flawed, plain and simple. Yes people will use squad mates to abuse it and no, no one really cares if their dummy account dies or gives someone "a free kill", they will use it if it provides easy kills.

The easiest solution is to just limit 3rdPV to warp gates. No need to toss up a "pay for it" bit for something we probably should have anyway as long as it provides absolutely zero possibility for exploitation. And again no reason for a 10 second set up and break down ordeal for 3rdPV in warp gates.

If it was limited to warp gate use, there is no possible exploitation because there is no target for you to exploit it on.

And let's make this clear. No one mentioned that utilizing team mates and voice chat to exploit this would be tactically unsound. I said the odds of using a dummy account and dual accounting just for this set up are low because the setup time is high and the reward miniscule in comparison. Having a team mate though? Instant free kills.

Sorry but you are posting in a very anti-3rdPV forum. You are going to catch flak for suggesting any form of idea or cognitive thought that brings it into combat zones. People might be too hasty to read the OP and actually give clear feedback, but don't insult those that do and did by casually tossing their arguments to the side.

[Atheosim]

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

Your "clarifications" amounted to nothing.

People will abuse this system so long as they can take it into combat. The idea is flawed, plain and simple. Yes people will use squad mates to abuse it and no, no one really cares if their dummy account dies or gives someone "a free kill", they will use it if it provides easy kills.

The easiest solution is to just limit 3rdPV to warp gates. No need to toss up a "pay for it" bit for something we probably should have anyway as long as it provides absolutely zero possibility for exploitation. And again no reason for a 10 second set up and break down ordeal for 3rdPV in warp gates.

If it was limited to warp gate use, there is no possible exploitation because there is no target for you to exploit it on.

And let's make this clear. No one mentioned that utilizing team mates and voice chat to exploit this would be tactically unsound. I said the odds of using a dummy account and dual accounting just for this set up are low because the setup time is high and the reward miniscule in comparison. Having a team mate though? Instant free kills.

Sorry but you are posting in a very anti-3rdPV forum. You are going to catch flak for suggesting any form of idea or cognitive thought that brings it into combat zones. People might be too hasty to read the OP and actually give clear feedback, but don't insult those that do and did by casually tossing their arguments to the side.

I really don't understand where you got the sensationalist idea that seeing an enemy means you can attack them without retaliation. Explain to me exactly how seeing an enemy before they see you amounts to a "free kill", ESPECIALLY under the circumstances that they'll almost always prepared for a person around the corner anyways.

I never mentioned anything about warpgates in the OP, and to amend my idea, IF it were limited to only a warpgate, FFS obviously there would be no set up nor cooldown time, and it would almost assuredly be free.

Again you mention "instant free kills". I don't think you understand what that means.

And it's abundantly clear that 3rdPV in combat zones would be an issue that would instantly be flamed, but it's clear that your consideration for my own arguments are absolutely minimal.

[Blackwolf]

Originally Posted by Atheosim

I really don't understand where you got the sensationalist idea that seeing an enemy means you can attack them without retaliation. Explain to me exactly how seeing an enemy before they see you amounts to a "free kill", ESPECIALLY under the circumstances that they'll almost always prepared for a person around the corner anyways.

I never mentioned anything about warpgates in the OP, and to amend my idea, IF it were limited to only a warpgate, FFS obviously there would be no set up nor cooldown time, and it would almost assuredly be free.

Again you mention "instant free kills". I don't think you understand what that means.

And it's abundantly clear that 3rdPV in combat zones would be an issue that would instantly be flamed, but it's clear that your consideration for my own arguments are absolutely minimal.

As is yours for everyone elses, just to defend an idea.

I'm done arguing the point, re-read what was written out and keep posting against that.

[Atheosim]

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

As is yours for everyone elses, just to defend an idea.

I'm done arguing the point, re-read what was written out and keep posting against that.

Hahahaha. Okay, Blackwolf.

[CutterJohn]

The danger of third person view is wall camping. We all did it in PS1, some more than others. Rather lame.

Other than that specific instance, it has extremely minor effects on gameplay.

Its also something many people enjoy, for various reasons.

Solution: If your character couldn't see the enemy from their position, they aren't rendered in third person mode.

Simpler, but flawed, solution: Just don't render anyone within 20m or so while in third person.

[Atheosim]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

The danger of third person view is wall camping. We all did it in PS1, some more than others. Rather lame.

Other than that specific instance, it has extremely minor effects on gameplay.

Its also something many people enjoy, for various reasons.

Solution: If your character couldn't see the enemy from their position, they aren't rendered in third person mode.

Simpler, but flawed, solution: Just don't render anyone within 20m or so while in third person.

Wall camping wouldn't work because of the 10 second teardown. I'm not going to deny that it's possible that a team might use it to their advantage, but with 3D spotting I don't understand how it's better to have them a vulnerable easy target than have extra guns or an infil 3D spotting.