Head shots, body shots, TTK

[Whalenator]

I don't know about Infantry,
but the vehicle TTK atm is waaaay too short. Two hits to kill a heavy tank? BS.

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by lolroflroflcake

Something I don't get. Modern FPSes have really low TTKs, they also have extremely limited match sizes. Their TTKs are based on the fact that there are usually not that many people shooting. So why is it a good idea to shorten TTKs when there is a whole crap-load who will be shooting, seems to me like that is just a recepie for everyone hiding behind cover afraid to emerge or spending quite abit more time dead then alive.

This is something I don't understand about you guys.

The thought a low TTK somehow removes strategy and tactics and turns the game into "IMA HID IN DA FOOTHOLD"-side.

In case you all forget, those tactics and strategies you all like so much in your Planetside more often then not have their roots in RL, and AFAIK the TTK in RL is pretty damn low.

Imo high TTK actually removes tactics and strategies, because I DON'T have to worry about dieing really fuckin fast, but when I actually have to think about how to approach a situation while keeping myself alive, that is the time when real tactics actually come into play.

And to be quite honest, we aren't talking BF-Hardcore, much less CoD-Hardcore, here, so if the TTK is on BFBC2s level it's still rather high by todays standards.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

And to be quite honest, we aren't talking BF-Hardcore, much less CoD-Hardcore, here, so if the TTK is on BFBC2s level it's still rather high by todays standards.

Based on what we saw at E3, we are. I don't see how 2 hs is harder than 1 hs with a 75 clip LMG.

And what are you talking about, if you die in 10 shots you still die fast when multiple people shoot at you... how does that remove tactics?

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by Bags

Based on what we saw at E3, we are. I don't see how 2 hs is harder than 1 hs with a 75 clip LMG.

And what are you talking about, if you die in 10 shots you still die fast when multiple people shoot at you... how does that remove tactics?

Simple, the longer it takes to take someone out, the more time there is for 1 or more of his friends to notice and join in.

Now that I think about it some more it takes away more from "small unit tactics", that benefit from higher individual skill, than it does from large scale tactics, because when a small group, say a squad, drops on or infiltrates a base that is held by a platoon then a high TTK will be a disadvantage to them, simply because if it takes 10 seconds to kill someone in a 1v1 situation then that means that no matter how good you are, if you go up against more than one opponent you will be at a significant disadvantage.

In the end I hope for a TTK that is more BFBC2/2142, than it is PS1.

Edit: I mean PS1 TTK over range, I know that point blank you still die rather fast, but as you mention the damage falloff was beyond retarded.

[Sabot]

As they do have headshots now, and everybody exept the infil are wearing armor that must weigh a ton or two, I tihnk the TTK could be a little higher on center mass hits. 12-13 hits perhaps.

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by Sabot

As they do have headshots now, and everybody exept the infil are wearing armor that must weigh a ton or two, I tihnk the TTK could be a little higher on center mass hits. 12-13 hits perhaps.

I don't think "It has future armors." is a good enough reason behind a high TTK.

[Sabot]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

I don't think "It has future armors." is a good enough reason behind a high TTK.

Well spotted... now try to spot the sarcasm, it's worth over 9000 points! :P

But serisouly... obviously I meant that beacuse of the possibility of headshots now present, a higher TTK on body hits makes sense.. especially as there quite possibly will be more than 10 people shooting at you at the same time. And if that squad that dropped to take something guarded by a lot more players want to be able to do something useful there, they better know how to aim and shot them in head for staters.

[NEWSKIS]

This is what beta is for, to hopefully fine tune it so its not too short or too long. Personally as long as its not horribly short I'll be fine with whatever they decide.

As for vehicles, for the main battle tanks, I'd say the lowest it should be is 2 shells on rear armor, 3-4 for the sides and 5-6 on the front. Some people might say this is high, but think of how many tanks you'd be fighting, even with those numbers you'd get instagibbed.

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by Sabot

Well spotted... now try to spot the sarcasm, it's worth over 9000 points! :P

But serisouly... obviously I meant that beacuse of the possibility of headshots now present, a higher TTK on body hits makes sense.. especially as there quite possibly will be more than 10 people shooting at you at the same time. And if that squad that dropped to take something guarded by a lot more players want to be able to do something useful there, they better know how to aim and shot them in head for staters.

Yeah the whole sarcasm in writing thing doesn't really work that well.

And I think your suggestion with the headshot puts to much emphasis on personal skill, it should be a sweet spot between where you can negate numbers to a slight degree by being better and just roflstomping superior numbers everytime because you have godlike skills.

P.S.: I dunno, it's kinda hard for me finding the proper words atm, I blame being at work and being tired.

[Sabot]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

Yeah the whole sarcasm in writing thing doesn't really work that well.

And I think your suggestion with the headshot puts to much emphasis on personal skill, it should be a sweet spot between where you can negate numbers to a slight degree by being better and just roflstomping superior numbers everytime because you have godlike skills.

P.S.: I dunno, it's kinda hard for me finding the proper words atm, I blame being at work and being tired.

Hehe well I thought that one was pretty obvious.

Well, maybe it's just me, but I think personal skill should be rewarded like that. Some people are good making good tactical decisions on a squad level, some are good at the meta-game, and some are good at shooting things. All styles are needed imo, and I think that all play styles should be rewarded for doing it well... even if that means just a "participant trophy" in the grand scheeme of things and a slightly nicer K/D ratio.

Besides, if you have 10 people shooting at you, it doesn't matter if the TTK is 10 or 13 hits... unless you find cover fast as hell, you're going to die even faster. Unless they're really bad...

[Dairian]

I have talked about this topic before. After playing about ALMOST every FPS ever made from DOOM to now. And an original planetside vet. The more players you have on a map the higher your TTK needs to be. Now I do not think it needs to be as high as PS1 but if it is as low as BF3 with 2k players on a map and in some fights i would say at least 500+ at a base. I know I would get pissed if I spawned and as I ran out of a doorway and were killed in 1/16th of a sec from 4 people spamming fire. Without a way to fight back other than sit back and do the same waiting on them to come in. But as we all keep saying WAIT FOR BETA!! Coming very soon!

[Stew]

Originally Posted by asdar

I hope this doesn't turn into a thread about which is more tactical, short or long TTK. I'm just curious about how the TTK is weighted right now, and maybe what you think it should be.

If you go with the heaviest attack, either the Max unit or HA vs the Lightest armor LA, eng or medic how many head shots does it take? and how many body shots?

I think I'd be ok with 2-3 headshots in this situation, and 6-9 body shots.

If you went the Lightest attack vs the heaviest infantry armor I'd be ok with 5-7 head shots and maybe 15-20 body shots, Max Units I'd think 10-12 head shots, 20-30 body shots.

I figure head shot should be roughly 3X a body shot in damage.

You cant say 1 hot 2 hot 6 shot like this

Every weapons have their own dps Rate of fire vs stopping power vs accuracy !

U cant say it must take thats much shot since every weapons are balanced with Stopping power vs accuracy vs rate of fire vs damage degrade over time vs distance etc..

its not that easy lol

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Dairian

I have talked about this topic before. After playing about ALMOST every FPS ever made from DOOM to now. And an original planetside vet. The more players you have on a map the higher your TTK needs to be. Now I do not think it needs to be as high as PS1 but if it is as low as BF3 with 2k players on a map and in some fights i would say at least 500+ at a base. I know I would get pissed if I spawned and as I ran out of a doorway and were killed in 1/16th of a sec from 4 people spamming fire. Without a way to fight back other than sit back and do the same waiting on them to come in. But as we all keep saying WAIT FOR BETA!! Coming very soon!

I think i do not agree 31 years old FPS vets here and i deeply agree whith this ... more player must be better ttk since you can run more often in a huge group of people so you personally need to have a chance if your skills are higher otherwise it will always be Numbers wins , high TTK in a massive online game is just stupid ! It must be well balanced thats mean huge headshot bonus and also very low legshot and decent body shot !

Dust have a high ttk and it sucks

[goneglockin]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

Imo high TTK actually removes tactics and strategies, because I DON'T have to worry about dieing really fuckin fast, but when I actually have to think about how to approach a situation while keeping myself alive, that is the time when real tactics actually come into play.

You'd think so, but you'd be wrong. The longer a fight lasts, the more likely the better player will win. I'm talking about tactics and strategy in regards to playing a video game, an FPS game. You're talking about tactics and strategy like an arm chair general with a war fantasy, that's what I don't get. I don't think that's what makes games fun.

Anyway, the game that had the best average TTKs was FEAR, the first one. It had thee most under-rated MP experience of the past decade, and was the last great corridor shooter of its day. I'm all for somewhere in the middle, but fights between decent players should rarely last more than 2-3 seconds up close.

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by goneglockin

You'd think so, but you'd be wrong. The longer a fight lasts, the more likely the better player will win.

No, I don't think I'm wrong.

Simple reason is that you think in a 1vs1 scenario, while I think in a scenario where a 1vs1 can quickly turn into a Xvs1 if it takes to long to kill someone.

Originally Posted by goneglockin

I'm talking about tactics and strategy in regards to playing a video game, an FPS game. You're talking about tactics and strategy like an arm chair general with a war fantasy, that's what I don't get. I don't think that's what makes games fun.

You aren't talking about tactics or strategy at all, only think you did was throw a veiled insult at me.