New Player Mentality - Page 3

Littleman · 2012-07-22, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

The first-gen FPS addicts who turned the TR into what it is today -- the infantry empire, the support empire, the All For One, One For All empire -- were learning game mechanics and map layouts along with us, too. What they offered was organization. Philosophy.

When your team only has six-eight people on it, there's no room for lone-wolfing. Every single guy is super important. You have to take care of the people around you. That was a product of the early tournament circuit, and that's what they passed on. Like the rest of us, they were attracted to the TR because of the whole pro military/authoritarian lore, so we wound up with most of them. And they were nice to us. They didn't cop an attitude and call us noobs and try to boss us around; they just vacuumed us up into squads and led us by example.

I intend to return the favor.

I wasn't referring to teamwork and philosophy, but to teaching them old tried and true tactics from PS1 thinking they'll work in PS2. I'll admit, I was thinking of the specific examples given, instead of the point of what you were attempting to get across: teaching them teamwork.

For the record, I don't think anyone needs to be taught teamwork so much as one simply needs to be eager and willing to help their allies around them. The teamwork part comes naturally to one after that. As a distant example, people whom like playing healers in MMORPG's because they like healing are generally team-oriented players because they enjoy supporting someone. Terran infantry were strong because a vast majority of them may as well have been healer oriented players, only without the accompanying crux of low dps

Not saying advising people that looking out for your allies makes for a strong team is a waste of time though. Many people need that nudge.

Firefly · 2012-07-22, 07:57 AM

Grief points, grief lock, and the "BLOMMMPPP!!" noise probably would cure that right up.

Uh. Presuming they didn't have this in the beta/tech-test, I mean. Because, you know, totally speculating that they didn't.

OnexBigxHebrew · 2012-07-22, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

The biggest thing PS2 has to do for new players in changing their mentality, is stimulating awareness of reasonings behind team play design. Most importantly, why and how this is different from solo play design and what it means for them.

MMO is about community experience as much if not more as it is about having a personal experience.

Players should be stimulated to not only interact with, but also simply respect other players, including players playing roles that do not come natural to their frame of reference.

They should be well aware of the difference in game design between a game with 4 players in a free-for-all deathmatch, 32 vs 32 and beyond.

SOE has the responsibility to communicate this intuitively by subtly incorporating it in all the game mechanics, think of:

Through the UI
Statistics
Benefits of team vehicles
Squad mechanics (including squad accessibility for new players)
Spawn mechanics
Strategic objectives and ways to (facilitate) taking them out with the help of allies
Chat and voice systems and accessibility
Community building (outfit infrastructure)
Expansive tutorials, perhaps even tutorial systems where other players help them
Stimulating inter-empire rivalries more than intra-empire rivalries, stimulating loyalties
Basic explanations for anything related to UI

And whatever else you can think of where the player interacts directly with the game, there's a chance to subtly point out how cooperation with others on his empire is beneficial to the player's own needs. Think of it as positive brainwashing, re-education or simply incentives to work together if you wish.

All these are opportunities to promote a cooperative environment and mold the teamplay spirit of new players.

It also includes forums and communicating design visions and keeping a close watch on what effect their design decisions have on teamwork.

I've been playing shooters for 15 years and I don't need vets to "stimulate" me. The reality you're all going to be dealing with is that this game will handle more like games I play than games you play, and won't be nearly as deep or outfit-run as most vets seem to think.

Let's not lump experienced and talented shooter players that overlooked planetside one with 13 year old f2p addicts, which like it or not, will be this games largest demographic.

CidHighwind · 2012-07-22, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Sikee Atric

Clearly we can ignore such childish games and concentrate on actually testing the game. SoE should actually keep the footage as a spoof trailer.... "How Not To Play PS2" and supply it with a Commentary and footage of how to actually play, what is potentially, The Game of 2013.

That kid will be a living legend then and an example of turning the worst drek of the internet into useful members of society.

This is brilliant. It should be a mandatory opening scene for all empires.

Firefly · 2012-07-22, 08:03 AM

Let's also not pretend that plenty of "PS1 vets" weren't actively engaging in team-killing.

Accuser · 2012-07-22, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Firefly

Grief points, grief lock, and the "BLOMMMPPP!!" noise probably would cure that right up.

Uh. Presuming they didn't have this in the beta/tech-test, I mean. Because, you know, totally speculating that they didn't.

Though it would be really nice to have an intro cinematic. The cinematic for BF2 was legendary, and the one for BF2142 wasn't bad either. And considering that new players won't know anything about the factions, and that there are three of them, a cinematic showing the background and motivations of each would be awesome.

It would be especially potent if there were just a basic background video when you launch the game, and a full-on, loyalty-building faction specific cinematic when you create a new character of a faction, similar to starting a new class in WoW...

Who am I?
Where am I?
Why am I shooting the other guys?
Why am I loyal to my faction?
^ I want to see some videos that answer these questions in-game.

james · 2012-07-22, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

The biggest thing PS2 has to do for new players in changing their mentality, is stimulating awareness of reasonings behind team play design. Most importantly, why and how this is different from solo play design and what it means for them.

MMO is about community experience as much if not more as it is about having a personal experience.

Players should be stimulated to not only interact with, but also simply respect other players, including players playing roles that do not come natural to their frame of reference.

They should be well aware of the difference in game design between a game with 4 players in a free-for-all deathmatch, 32 vs 32 and beyond.

SOE has the responsibility to communicate this intuitively by subtly incorporating it in all the game mechanics, think of:

Through the UI
Statistics
Benefits of team vehicles
Squad mechanics (including squad accessibility for new players)
Spawn mechanics
Strategic objectives and ways to (facilitate) taking them out with the help of allies
Chat and voice systems and accessibility
Community building (outfit infrastructure)
Expansive tutorials, perhaps even tutorial systems where other players help them
Stimulating inter-empire rivalries more than intra-empire rivalries, stimulating loyalties
Basic explanations for anything related to UI

And whatever else you can think of where the player interacts directly with the game, there's a chance to subtly point out how cooperation with others on his empire is beneficial to the player's own needs. Think of it as positive brainwashing, re-education or simply incentives to work together if you wish.

All these are opportunities to promote a cooperative environment and mold the teamplay spirit of new players.

It also includes forums and communicating design visions and keeping a close watch on what effect their design decisions have on teamwork.

Don't even waste your time or breath with FNG, there will be tons of newbs who will not listen nor really give a explicit what you say. Its the biggest flaw with f2p you will get far more idiots than with a paid version. We just have to hope we get enough people with there heads on straight, otherwise the community will kill the game.

maddoggg · 2012-07-22, 09:14 AM

1st:Please dont put all new players in the same mentality.
The average FPS player who is incapable of comprihending anything more tactical than,camp this cooridor and get a killstreak,would hate on ps2(expecialy if he just jumped in online and have no idea what the game is about).
The average MMO player who plays games like WoW and is incapable of playing anything more skill based than pressing 1 2 3 and 1 2 3 again,may hate ps2 aswell.

I may not be a ps1 vet,but i have always wanted dept in the games i play.
I have watched all the ps2 footage that have been released and i know all the basic stuff i need to known to imediately start PTFOing(playing the f**king objective)and squading up and so on.
I know many other gamers like me(for example the old school bf community),who are not ps1 vets,are getting really passionate about ps2,simply because they saw what features the game offers and they have enough expirience with FPS games to comprihend how cool the hole thing is.

There is a big difference between a new player who is willing to learn the game,who is trying the understand the game better and likes the chalenge and generaly seeks ways to improve his play,
and a new player who jumps online without even watching the trailer,spawns and starts shooting at the first thing he sees(because he thinks every FPS game=COD)and when he gets banned/pwned he rages at the game and rage quits for good(i say good ridance to those type of players).

2nd:Making the game easier to understand for new players is a good thing.Video tutorials,ingame missions suited for newbies,maybe even server with a max rank limit,that's all good.
However i really hope SOE(unlike DICE)would make the difference between making it more accesable and dumbing it down.

I really hope that if THE LAZY KIND of new players start hating on ps2,just because "anything more complex than COD aint worth the time figuring",SOE wont give in to the irrational hate and wont dumb down the game(by lowering TTK even more,removing weapons recoil,dumbing down the facilities map design so it all becomes a clusterf**k like bf3 operation metro,removing essential team work features and so on)

Rivenshield · 2012-07-22, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Littleman

I wasn't referring to teamwork and philosophy, but to teaching them old tried and true tactics from PS1 thinking they'll work in PS2. I'll admit, I was thinking of the specific examples given, instead of the point of what you were attempting to get across: teaching them teamwork.

The only game mechanic they need lecturing on is one all-important, very simple, very brutal fact of life on Auraxis:

UNEQUAL BATTLES ARE THE NORM. You are either steamrollering somebody or getting steamrollered. The sole exception is when the majority of the pop of that continent gets pissed off at each other and decides they're not backing away from a given objective. The lattice system facilitated this to a certain extent. It is no more.

There is no autobalance in Planetside. That takes a lot of getting used to.

Originally Posted by OnexBigxHebrew

The reality you're all going to be dealing with is that this game will handle more like games I play than games you play, and won't be nearly as deep or outfit-run as most vets seem to think.

You're, uh... assuming a lot of assumptions, here.

shadar · 2012-07-22, 01:16 PM

Your going to need to do differnt things baced on the new players. For those that are willing to learn let them in your outfit and teach them the differance between this and a tipical fps. For those that arnt willing to learn well i dont know what to do there cause im a new player myself. If most of the vets start being elitest and not helping the noobs that where to problems will come from but from what ive seen most of yall seem resonable

Ratstomper · 2012-07-22, 01:29 PM

As some have said, It's unfair to lump all new players into one idiotic mass. The people who do this are the same people who cry that the game is being "dumbed down". It seems like there are a lot of well-thought-out and decent players new to the franchise. For those who are, I will say that there are facets of the game you won't experience by watching the gameplay. Don't be too harsh on vets; they just don't want the game to turn into every other shooter (understandably).

As for the other vets, we should consider the fact that many of the aspects of PS1 are outdated as hell. It's time to embrace some changes for the better and not excoriate said changes before we even get to see them in action.

Originally Posted by shadar

Your going to need to do differnt things baced on the new players. For those that are willing to learn let them in your outfit and teach them the differance between this and a tipical fps. For those that arnt willing to learn well i dont know what to do there cause im a new player myself. If most of the vets start being elitest and not helping the noobs that where to problems will come from but from what ive seen most of yall seem resonable

I say we start with basic english and work up from there.

moosepoop · 2012-07-22, 01:31 PM

i welcome new players with open embrace. i will be like a father to them, and they will be my children.

i love you.

Senyu · 2012-07-22, 01:53 PM

I have no concerns about FPS players. Its the other people I'm worried about. This game is going to initially attract alot more people than the FPS'sers. Alot of people who only play games like WoW will check it out. It's those people I'm worried about.

EisenKreutzer · 2012-07-22, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Senyu

I have no concerns about FPS players. Its the other people I'm worried about. This game is going to initially attract alot more people than the FPS'sers. Alot of people who only play games like WoW will check it out. It's those people I'm worried about.

Most of those people are ok. Theres the odd basement-dwelling trogolodyte, but mostly they're just people.

Rivenshield · 2012-07-22, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Senyu

I have no concerns about FPS players. Its the other people I'm worried about. This game is going to initially attract alot more people than the FPS'sers. Alot of people who only play games like WoW will check it out. It's those people I'm worried about.

My concerns are precisely the reverse. I think any RPG people who migrate over will tend towards the friendly pro-social teamwork side, and I hope the TR attract as many of them as possible.

There are no more ruthless win-at-all-costs narcissists and exploiters to be found than in the Cawadooty crowd.