Remove camping spawn buildings from meta game - Page 3

MrBloodworth · 2012-10-22, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Tatwi

It doesn't matter where they move the spawn area to, there will always be a point where the attackers can spawn camp.

Problem is not the spawn camping IMO. Its that you do not have to fight anyone to be able to.

If the spawns were deep inside the bases like the original, would not be an issue. Fights right now just go to who ever drops the gen. That's outside, far away from the core of the base. Same with the spawn points.

I have no idea why the treat spawn locations, and gens af if they were latrine areas on a forward base.

Hamma · 2012-10-22, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Miir

Bring back the spawn generators instead.

I'm not sure why it was removed in the first place but I'd rather the fight end than just sit and camp each bases spawn room at every encounter.

As an example: Yesteday I was at Snake Ravine with about 30 magriders camping the spawn room as we waited for the base to flip. In the spawn room there was about 10-15 NC that kept trying to push out. Each time ending in them being killed. I do see a purpose for this. It was boring as hell to sit there in the mags and I'm sure the other guys weren't having much fun either.

So why is this even a part of the game?

Agreed.

PClownPosse · 2012-10-22, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Problem is not the spawn camping IMO. Its that you do not have to fight anyone to be able to.

If the spawns were deep inside the bases like the original, would not be an issue. Fights right now just go to who ever drops the gen. That's outside, far away from the core of the base. Same with the spawn points.

I have no idea why the treat spawn locations, and gens af if they were latrine areas on a forward base.

Yeah, base design could use an overhaul. Everything's strangely spread out, not very logically placed and spawn locations are just weird. Consequently, interior fights (of any length, substance or importance and without a tank breathing down your neck) are almost non-existent, which is a shame IMO.

GraniteRok · 2012-10-23, 06:51 AM

Should be like in PS1, you're not worth much in point value until you've lived for a certain period of time. Fresh spawns should be next to nothing in kill points. Current system is a roughly a one cert point gain for every two kills; 100pts per kill plus bonuses. No kill points then no cert points, possibly lesser camping or at least maybe be able to get out of a spawn to make a fight more worthwhile. Anyone who spawn camps then are padding their useless KDR stat that means squat. Of course, there will be those that will still do so.

Miir · 2012-10-23, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by GraniteRok

Should be like in PS1, you're not worth much in point value until you've lived for a certain period of time. Fresh spawns should be next to nothing in kill points. Current system is a roughly a one cert point gain for every two kills; 100pts per kill plus bonuses. No kill points then no cert points, possibly lesser camping or at least maybe be able to get out of a spawn to make a fight more worthwhile. Anyone who spawn camps then are padding their useless KDR stat that means squat. Of course, there will be those that will still do so.

I like this idea. It could also be used to help make the leaderboard a little more accurate. If you are killed in the first 20 seconds it doesn't count as a kill towards someones score. I believe this would have a huge positive impact on the leaderboard.

It wouldn't fix the camping of the spawn rooms but it might make it a little less appealing for people that like to farm kills.

PClownPosse · 2012-10-23, 02:24 PM

Yeah, I think the only way to stop spawn camping is maybe a slight redesign of bases and spawn points, if that's even feasible at this stage?

Especially the "tower" spawn points outside of bases. They're so wide open and confined in regards to exits that it's impossible to stop.

The ps1 tower underground spawn location, locked door that always remained shut even after it was hacked and upper exit point made defending these locations much easier and reasonable against a vehicle heavy assault.

MrBloodworth · 2012-10-23, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by GraniteRok

Should be like in PS1, you're not worth much in point value until you've lived for a certain period of time. Fresh spawns should be next to nothing in kill points. Current system is a roughly a one cert point gain for every two kills; 100pts per kill plus bonuses. No kill points then no cert points, possibly lesser camping or at least maybe be able to get out of a spawn to make a fight more worthwhile. Anyone who spawn camps then are padding their useless KDR stat that means squat. Of course, there will be those that will still do so.

Not to be offensive. You are working with what you have.

However. No one will care how much XP a kill gives. Its all about the number one. One more kill count. one more "Did you see, I totally got that guy, AND his three friends that were right behind him! They had nowhere elese to go, but you see, I'm awesome. Lets go play some Battlefield, this game sucks, I'm not walking to the next base.".

Originally Posted by PClownPosse

Yeah, I think the only way to stop spawn camping is maybe a slight redesign of bases and spawn points, if that's even feasible at this stage?

This seems to be the game-play they want. This is not Accidental design. They do not even have doors on buildings with direct LOS to Objectives.

PClownPosse · 2012-10-23, 02:37 PM

Yeah, the no doors is a head scratcher to me? It invites vehicle camping.

Gonefshn · 2012-10-23, 05:17 PM

This might be fixed when they change to the new system where the timer is not tickets but rather capping the point itself.

This means people who want points will have to watch over the point the entire time until it flips. Perhaps this will make camping the spawn less viable because people will want to influence the cap instead of sit at the spawn building.

Probably wont fix it entirely but could help.

Figment · 2012-10-23, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Gonefshn

This might be fixed when they change to the new system where the timer is not tickets but rather capping the point itself.

This means people who want points will have to watch over the point the entire time until it flips. Perhaps this will make camping the spawn less viable because people will want to influence the cap instead of sit at the spawn building.

Probably wont fix it entirely but could help.

Ehm no doesn't fix it. Since people camp with 50 people, nah.

CaptainSmall · 2012-10-23, 11:48 PM

I think the simplest solution, as pointed out by some others here, would be to allow defenders to drop-pod in (with a timer - otherwise the defenders can just keep re spawning indefinitely and wipe out attackers each time) for any outdoors outpost. This way, the attackers would have to actively secure the point during the point flipping - as an attacker, I would find it more fun to have to actively patrol the point we just took rather than be forced to sit at a door.

Furthermore, the dev team doesn't have to spend a significant amount of time redesigning bases or whatnot.

Whiteagle · 2012-10-24, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by CaptainSmall

I think the simplest solution, as pointed out by some others here, would be to allow defenders to drop-pod in (with a timer - otherwise the defenders can just keep re spawning indefinitely and wipe out attackers each time) for any outdoors outpost. This way, the attackers would have to actively secure the point during the point flipping - as an attacker, I would find it more fun to have to actively patrol the point we just took rather than be forced to sit at a door.

Furthermore, the dev team doesn't have to spend a significant amount of time redesigning bases or whatnot.

Well I think this, combined with the new "Spawn Control Unit" mechanics, would be the way to go.

You wouldn't be able to camp a Spawnroom door if they are dropping out of the air, but you could still stop them from coming down by overloading the bases "Drop-pod Targeting Beacon" and screw any that made it down over by hacking all the local Equipment Terminals.

Figment · 2012-10-24, 05:37 AM

Why all the convoluted solutions when you can just as easily make a central building with an internal spawnpoint and the control point in the same building, linked to a variety of rooms that have to be breached, fought through a bunch of defended position all the way down to the underground spawnroom where you find a spawn disabling device outside a shielded spawnroom. You manage to get in there, take that down (overload, whatever), the spawn shield comes down, you kill what ever is left, done.

But in the meantime, defenders have had a chance to defend themselves without being camped constantly.

There's a reason the Tower Outpost design is the best designed building so far, but is still poor, because you can't (re-)enter the spawnroom to clear it out AND because it's too open and prone to assaults from all sides.

The most ridiculous thing though is that you can be shot and tank/aircav shelled in small rooms in which you HAVE to be stationary and in close proximity to a terminal, from the outside...

Do I really have to draft a ground plan to make the obvious clear? :/

...

Fine...

ringring · 2012-10-24, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by GraniteRok

Should be like in PS1, you're not worth much in point value until you've lived for a certain period of time. Fresh spawns should be next to nothing in kill points. Current system is a roughly a one cert point gain for every two kills; 100pts per kill plus bonuses. No kill points then no cert points, possibly lesser camping or at least maybe be able to get out of a spawn to make a fight more worthwhile. Anyone who spawn camps then are padding their useless KDR stat that means squat. Of course, there will be those that will still do so.

I agree with the xp thing (also in ps1 freshly spawned didn't count towards merits), but it wouldn't solve the issue at hand.

Figment · 2012-10-24, 07:28 AM

Note that I didn't even apply a fancy shape or a basement spawn room in this (drafted this at work, didn't really have time).

PS1 Turreted Tower combined with PS2 building and a little bit of PS1 base inspiration, PS1 AT Redoubt spawn room with PS2 outpost door shields (but curved), shields in front of all the top floor rooms, protected door exits, locked external doors and a spawnroom that can't be camped, but where spawns can be taken out after people have been pushed back all the way to the spawnroom.

Vehicles can't fire directly into the spawn room or any other room than the room that the entrances lead to. IFF shields protect from blasting, but can help to harass vehicles, making infantry and non-blast vehicles (gunners?!) more important in suppressing the people inside. CC in particular is extra protected, due to players being sitting ducks around there and small groups having a chance to make a stand. Larger groups could be picked off partially through the windows. Making a stand is very important to players, feeling rapeable from four-six sides isn't that satisfaction inducing.

Infils have something to infiltrate and sneakily capture and a SCU to sneakily kill. The AA turret is in a logical position as it has a 360 view, some AV (or AI) turret defenses. The four exits (and roof exit), in this case on three sides, two on a higher level, making it harder to camp from the outside and allow infantry from inside to try to find a way upstairs. Catwalks leading into other buildings connecting the central building with the remainder of the outpost. Catwalks and doors are protected by various forms of shielding (from above or to hide behind). On the other hand, a Galdrop and Jetpackers can get in easily through the top floor.

Once SCU goes down, spawn shield go down. Shields are curved so you can shoot at people camping around corners: incentive to take out SCU rather than camp the hell out of them.

It's possible for an attacker to wriggle themselves between defenders and CC, but defenders can try and retake the CC without having to get outside and pass by the 20+ one shot kill vehicles, where the drivers have to get out and into the base.

Defenders have AA and AV options built into the base. Engineers have something to do. Normal infantry can reach mid floor from three directions, but top floor is relatively protected with just one way up. Of course jetpackers can get up more easily.

Whacha think?