PS2 makes new players unhappy - Page 3

sylphaen · 2012-11-05, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

What was good also was that you got these pop ups every time you got to something new, aside from world objects like warpgates and continents, these would be marked with big yellow exclamation marks, inviting you to take a look at what they do. You even got experience for touching those marks, so it was very rewarding to explore new tools.

Honestly, I think they did an outstanding job for the intuitive design and incentives to follow through with them without being obligated to any of it since you could always do them later through a tab in the personal profile pop up.

I loved PS1 tutorial. It was like a character boost associated to a discovery/achievement list.

There was an index of everything your character could discover. While it was not really part of the tutorial, you were given XP anytime your character did something new and to complete the list, there were some advanced challenging items: piloting and trying weapons of enemy vehicles. Not a task for beginners yet part of the same "progress" list!
(fyi, you could capture and use enemy vehicles in PS1)

The tutorial was basically helping you to start filling the list and to realize how much more there was to find !

Coupled with the achievement system, it was a thing I remember taking some time to read and trying to complete.

Hamma · 2012-11-05, 10:16 PM

Videos and a simple tutorial system simply won't cut it. People will skip the tutorial or ignore it and unless people really want to know about the game 30000 videos wont help.

Mechzz · 2012-11-06, 08:28 AM

Hmm. I wonder if they could do something along the lines of Eve, where whole corporations exist to help new players into the game?

Now, PS2 has nowhere near the depth or complexity of Eve, but if an SOE-sponsored outfit was setup that ALL new players were forced to join, then experienced players might volunteer to be in that outfit (as well as their own, of course) and be willing to spend some time with new players, getting them in a squad, doing some training with them etc?

There are many people who are generous with their time, so this might work?

Hamma · 2012-11-06, 09:18 AM

That would be cool Mechzz.

Or they could just complete the mission system, I am of the belief a fully fleshed out mission system is the exact thing to help new players figure out what to do in a non round based shooter.

Now instead of running around looking at random icons on the map they have a specific mission to capture a certain point. They won't ignore it like a tutorial because it will give them direction rather than just pop up random windows or boot them into a random hotspot (still not knowing what to do)

Mechzz · 2012-11-06, 09:39 AM

Yeah, good point on the mission system. There's been no word of that for weeks, so we probably won't have it for launch, but it's something I'd definitely like to see in a future release.

Rahabib · 2012-11-06, 11:45 AM

well a fully fleshed out VR system probably will not come anytime soon. However, a video in the game that if you watched you get X certs (you must watch them in game so they can restrict fast forward etc.) they can do. They could even split them out so that - say 10 videos of 2-3 minutes a piece you get 2-5 certs each seems reasonable.

There was a game that did this - but I still cant remember who did, its driving me nuts.

Fear The Amish · 2012-11-06, 01:34 PM

Speaking of EVE a new player chat that they are automatically added to that stays open until a random rank would be nice. Give people a chance to ask questions and get answers quickly. Also smedly posted somewhere that at launch there will be a short and sweet tutorial system.

IHateMMOs · 2012-11-06, 01:35 PM

I honestly can't see how someone doesn't know what to do when they get in.

sylphaen · 2012-11-06, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by IHateMMOs

I honestly can't see how someone doesn't know what to do when they get in.

Maybe you're not noob enough.

Rahabib · 2012-11-06, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by IHateMMOs

I honestly can't see how someone doesn't know what to do when they get in.

As someone who is new to PS, there are a few things that were confusing to me and took me a while to figure out.

First off, the map. When you spawn at the warp gate the first time there are no green dots. No where it says - you have to instant action, or re-deploy. No where does it say anything about squads. So a lot of new people truck out into the vast emptiness, thinking, "hmm.. I remember there was a explosion icon somewhere in this direction."

Second, No where is it stated in game how you get credits. So you start killing things and then eventually you get some. But when you kills things you get XP not credits - it was a bit confusing to me when I first started. Back when I very first started, they still had Araxium, which I can bearly tell you how that worked because I had to look it up. Same with the credits.

Once i grabbed an Sunderer thinking I could deploy and use it as a spawn like I saw everyone else doing - obviously that didnt work. What about buying weapons or attachments - oh you have to equip it first. That I had to just play around with it and then find it.

So the fact is, there are some things thats easy to people who use the internet to google things, but not intuitive to just figure out.

I guess this is where you tell me how I am too stupid to play the game or something else demeaning. Normally, I probaby wouldnt say anything but I know others who have the same questions - just look at the new player boards.

Crator · 2012-11-06, 05:14 PM

^ It's defiantly an issue. If you're someone who's used to Planetside it isn't that difficult. Because you know most of the stuff from the first game so you have a pretty good idea what you are supposed to do and what the objectives are. As far as how the UI and certifications work, that is totally new to everyone. But if you have been following development of PS2 (before beta) then you still have a good idea about the new stuff because you've read about it in DEV blogs, forums, and videos produced by the DEVs.

Figment · 2012-11-06, 08:08 PM

What Rahabib says is just the start too. There being a PS2 wiki for instance is nice and all, but it's got to be accurate, found, complete-ish and maintained.

Someone who is in game has no use for a wiki at that point, right there and then. Out of combat, that's nice and great and can be a great extra, but the bottom line is they shouldn't have to go looking for it outside of the game too much to get the basics.

As for the mission system, I've certed all the command leader stuff with the 1000 cp we got free. You get two little icons to place on the map every 5 minutes, requesting defense/offense.

But when I realised what it was and shared it with others I got a "OOOOOH, so THAT is what those things are! We couldn't figure it out yesterday at all!".

There's no proper map legenda. I mean, come on. What's the use of using symbols if people don't understand them or can verify their meaning?

RSphil · 2012-11-06, 08:27 PM

have to see what they do. i was new to all this planetside stuff but watched all the vids i could find and joined you amazing lot on here and got all the info i could. if i didnt know i asked and normally got an answer on here very quick. people just need pointing in the correct direction.

lets hope SOE get it correct and make learning the game easy and enjoyable.

Babyfark McGeez · 2012-11-07, 11:33 AM

I still think the system of PS1 was (nearly) perfect for a FPS style game.

You get to try out all the cool stuff and even get rewarded for it. And by trying it out you learn how it works. Maybe make a VR that is a true "Virtual Reality" and lets you also try out the different base layouts and what the objectives there are (mainly Bio lab, Amp Station, Tech plant).
There could be additonally videos running in a small window while in the VR to show you how exactly you should use that certain vehicle / weapon / objective.

But a tutorial that only consists of watching videos is boring and makes people miss important things because well, you know, they don't want to watch a video, they wan't to play (or atleast run around "live in game").
Even giving certs for that won't help.

Figment · 2012-11-07, 12:47 PM

One of the things missing in PS1, was practice on life targets. I mean, the infantry in the VR moved now and then, but didn't move in ways that allows you to really practice your aim and test weapon strengths, drop etc.

The vehicle VR had none such things at all.

It would be very nice to have the chance to firetest (moving) vehicles in VR, especially if they have different forms of armour on them. If they do go and make a VR, there's an awful lot they could do with that.

The Star Trek NGE vehicle style holo-deck we had in PS1 was pretty sweet, just a bit lackluster in options.

Speaking of VR and training, what could be really cool: if you could load a portion of an actual live map in VR for outfit training. Of course, that's not really for new players, but it would be very nice to have.