selling vec weapons is p2w! - Page 3

Ailos · 2012-11-22, 04:21 PM

This game is absolutely not pay to win, because everything that actually give an advantage in combat can only be obtained with cert points: AMS for sundy, Stealth and Flares for aircraft, weapon modifications (larger ammo bank, longer clip, shorter lock-on time, whatever).

You have no idea how frustratingly not P2W this game is to someone who would pay to have all of the above things instantly.

SpottyGekko · 2012-11-22, 05:44 PM

It's not P2W.

It's pay to unlock faster.

On my server leaderboard, there's quite a few BR20's with 26 to 30 hours played already. They have a massive advantage over me, because I've only managed to play 5 hours since launch. Not because I didn't want to play more, believe me.

Shogun · 2012-11-25, 07:20 AM

that´s right. the real advantage comes from playing the game, not from putting money in.

and compared to ANY other f2p game (with shop) out there, the pay to win factor on ps2 is the lowest!
if you want a weapon, you can get it for free after playing for some hours.
i know games where you need to play the game for several months to be able to aquire certain shop items for free!
there is NO shop-item in ps2, that requires you to grind for a month!

people who still whine about ps2 being a pay to win game are just cheap and want to get everything for free.

if you start playing and pay tons of money an all the shop items, you still have no advantage over a free player who has been playing the game for some weeks. actually it´s the other way round! players who have been playing the game have access to scopes and other upgrades, no paying player could buy. those things are the real advantages in the game.

bmfof · 2012-11-27, 12:30 PM

The game might not fit the P2W definition bill because of how subjective the terms of winning are by default, but if you argue the fact that putting down money gives one a direct advantage over someone who opts to instead cert into a piece of equipment, you are in denial. A great example for that is practically every gun for the lightning, bar the skyguard - statwise, all of them are simply better than the default one and in a fight between two equally skilled operators, the one with the default will always lose to the other 3. Does he lose anything besides a single fight in a never-ending war? Not really. Is he at a disadvantage simply because he hasn't put money into the game? Absolutely yes.

On a side note, before anyone calls me cheap and whatnot, I have put in a good 50 bucks into the game already and plan on spending more, so suck it up.

ShadetheDruid · 2012-11-27, 12:40 PM

Except you're still giving up something if you cert out of the base lightning turret into one of the others.

If you cert into HE, you gain more AI ability than the base turret, but you're screwed against vehicles. If you cert into AP, you're losing your ability to handle infantry. Even if you cert into HEAT (like I did - well, I actually paid SC for it because i'm useless with the base turret), you're still giving up some AI ability for more damage (on infantry groups, 6 round barrage > single HEAT shot).

If you just pick one situation (lightning vs lightning), of course one turret is going to look better than another.

Storn · 2012-11-27, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Shogun

such a stupid thread again...

it´s just a problem for the first weekend, after that it doesn´t matter at all!
it´s not pay to win because you can get all weapons without having to pay. no excuse for the whiners here. you want a weapon, play some hours and you can get it! without money.

and if every weapon was only available for certs it would be the exact same situation after a short time. new players cannot use all weapons, while veterans can use more weapons.
so where is the difference, if the guy who shot you bought his weapon, or played more than you to get it? he will kill you with this weapon all the same so shut up already...

Agree with you all the way!

Mox · 2012-11-27, 01:05 PM

Well guys. Forget about the question if the game fits your definition of p2w.

Fact is that SOE at the first point talked about just selling sidegrades and cosmetics.
It seems SOE itself was worried about selling something else may fit the p2w definiton.

The point of this thread is that SOE went way beyond their promises by selling vec and major inf weapons in the shop.

By the way i have nothing against p2w. Almost every f2p game is p2w. It need to be p2s because you cant make enough money with more ore less useless weapons (sidegrades) and stupid cosmetics.

Nevertheless SOE is selling power and we all know it.

Mox · 2012-11-27, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by arclegger

If our game was pay to win we would have a button that showed up on the death screen that let you kill the person who just killed you for 50 SC. Then that person would get the same popup to kill you for 75 SC and it would keep growing and growing until the highest bidder won.

SOE may be stupid but not that stupid.

SoE is selling power. You can tweak definition as long as you want its still selling power.

Shogun · 2012-11-27, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Mox

SOE may be stupid but not that stupid.

SoE is selling power. You can tweak definition as long as you want its still selling power.

but not exclusively for money! you can get each weapon for free ingame currency called certpoints!

bmfof · 2012-11-27, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

Except you're still giving up something if you cert out of the base lightning turret into one of the others.

If you cert into HE, you gain more AI ability than the base turret, but you're screwed against vehicles. If you cert into AP, you're losing your ability to handle infantry. Even if you cert into HEAT (like I did - well, I actually paid SC for it because i'm useless with the base turret), you're still giving up some AI ability for more damage (on infantry groups, 6 round barrage > single HEAT shot).

If you just pick one situation (lightning vs lightning), of course one turret is going to look better than another.

Do you really want to go there? If you are claiming you are doing a "trade off" by taking out the default gun on a lightning you have no grasp on how this game works at all. Purely statwise you'll find a very hard time employing the default gun for any task whatsoever in a better fashion than any of the other 3 G2G guns. The same goes for many other weapons, like for example the rotary on the reaver, or the walker over the default guns on air vehicles (even if the walker is also shit). PS2 is actually guilty of one of the most basic F2P game crimes - making basic weapons so utterly shit that you either end up frustrating players into quitting, or forcing them to buy something else for cash. The option to just get cert points is also there for some people, but it's really just smoke and mirrors, and this will become more apparent in a couple of months when the power gap between newbs and vets becomes wider.

Timealude · 2012-11-27, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by bmfof

Do you really want to go there? If you are claiming you are doing a "trade off" by taking out the default gun on a lightning you have no grasp on how this game works at all. Purely statwise you'll find a very hard time employing the default gun for any task whatsoever in a better fashion than any of the other 3 G2G guns. The same goes for many other weapons, like for example the rotary on the reaver, or the walker over the default guns on air vehicles (even if the walker is also shit). PS2 is actually guilty of one of the most basic F2P game crimes - making basic weapons so utterly shit that you either end up frustrating players into quitting, or forcing them to buy something else for cash. The option to just get cert points is also there for some people, but it's really just smoke and mirrors, and this will become more apparent in a couple of months when the power gap between newbs and vets becomes wider.

i dont know about you but the default weapons seem fine to me, hell we have a few medic in our outfit that love the VS medic default weapon, I loved the semi auto sniper rifle even though its not my play style and I use the v10 but the basic weapons arent 'shit' as you would call them...They are actually very good the main gun for the mag is perfectly fine i havent bothered to switch it out yet just because i havent found anything i wouldnt wanna use more.

Saintlycow · 2012-11-27, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Timealude

i dont know about you but the default weapons seem fine to me, hell we have a few medic in our outfit that love the VS medic default weapon, I loved the semi auto sniper rifle even though its not my play style and I use the v10 but the basic weapons arent 'shit' as you would call them...They are actually very good the main gun for the mag is perfectly fine i havent bothered to switch it out yet just because i havent found anything i wouldnt wanna use more.

Exibit A : The orion

Exibit B : Carv

LONGFELLA KOJ · 2012-11-28, 01:56 AM

I actually want this to be Pay to win. Why not make this game reflect real life?

Money = Power. If I choose to drop $$$ on a leet gun because I have a 50 hour a week job and have no time to grind for it, what's the problem? I am not a super player, nor do I suck, but I would like the option. Anyone ever heard of the "speed-pass" at Six Flaggs Magic Mountain? I pay an extra $100 ontop of the ticket price and I get to go to the front of the line, every time on every ride, all day long. That is fine by me.

I vote for Pay to win! It's the American way!

Voodeux · 2012-11-28, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by bmfof

The game might not fit the P2W definition bill because of how subjective the terms of winning are by default, but if you argue the fact that putting down money gives one a direct advantage over someone who opts to instead cert into a piece of equipment, you are in denial.

I don't think that anyone has argued that paying for an early game aadvantage doesn't exist. The option is there for anyone to make use of. If someone TOTALLY can't wait to have that baller gun, they can (skip lunch/stop smoking/not go to the bar) for a couple days and buy a game card.

Originally Posted by bmfof

... Is he at a disadvantage simply because he hasn't put money into the game? Absolutely yes.

For a finite amount of time? Yes. Forever and ever? No.

Originally Posted by bmfof

so suck it up.

A fine quote and one you may wish to study a few times.

Originally Posted by LONGFELLA KOJ

I actually want this to be Pay to win.

Then you are an idiot.

Originally Posted by LONGFELLA KOJ

If I choose to drop $$$ on a leet gun because I have a 50 hour a week job and have no time to grind for it, what's the problem?

That option exist. What else are you asking for?

Originally Posted by bmfof

PS2 is actually guilty of one of the most basic F2P game crimes - making basic weapons so utterly shit that you either end up frustrating players into quitting, or forcing them to buy something else for cash.

THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

Not really. And the majority of the basic weapons are not utterly shit. Some? You bet. All. No.

Qwan · 2012-11-28, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Raymac

Unless I'm mistaken, you can get them using cert points. So you don't have to spend a dime. Sure you can't unlock everything in 1 day, but this game is going to be around while and those cert points rack up pretty quickly. If you could ONLY get them using real money then I would say it's pay2win, but I don't think this is even close. Plus, it's not like they are orders of magnitude greater in power.

Raymac is on the money on this one (no pun intended), I define Pay 2 Win as the only way of aquiring better weapons and gear whether a side grade or upgrade is threw a cash only payment. SOE has made it a point to allow gamers to pay either with SC or certs. Yes certs are higher, than station cash, but either way you look at it you have access to same weapons and equipment, though one way is faster and the other may take a while longer another person only has the advantage until you aquire the certs. I have a subscription, no xp boost, no cert boost, no alpha boost, just the subscription boost, I can gain 150 to 200 certs in a night running with my outfit. I spend them on vehicle timers, mag extentions, ams, resupply, I have yet to spend my certs on weapons. I have spent SC cash on camo and a lasher (Disco balls of Death), I have also spent SC on my duel Nebulas for my max everything else is Certs and I have extended magazines, a sunderer that can take a beating with ams.

But for all you guys who dont want to spend alot, here is a hint of advice, Look for the triple and double sales. I spend 10 bucks during the tripple cash weekend and got Like 3000 SC and I spent 5 bucks on the double last friday and got 1000 SC. If you look at some of the other P2W games out there charactors either stop at a certain level or you dont have access to certain weapons unless you pay. In PS2 you have access to everything, you just have to decide whether your going to game for it or try to catch a sale like I did