Is the AV MAX overpowered? - Page 3

psijaka · 2013-01-29, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by Binkley

I use the NC Max dual Falcon setup with good success against vehicles and infantry.

It's also very good sniper bait.

Originally Posted by DirtyBird

Totally agree with you psijaka.
The second Falcon was the last weapon i purchased for the MAX after disliking the single load out but I'm really enjoying playing it now.

Its not a set up imo that you would use looking for a huge K/D in your favour but it can hold its own in the right situations.
Could also consider it to a little too slow for most players.

Ah, fellow enthusiasts

I don't play for K/D and dislike the emphasis on the stat, but I have noticed my K/D start to rise steadily since getting into this loadout. Very tough; so I'm hard to kill, and in the right situation, can slaughter infantry by the dozen.

psijaka · 2013-01-29, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by SeraphC

I only have one Falcon yet I still consistently get one hit kills with it. Mind you, I'm rarely alone in these situations, but considering the amount of kills I've had with it I would really be surprised if each of those players had already been damaged by someone else.

I suspect your victims had already taken damage.

I've often got apparent 1HKs with the Falcons, but I've also very definately failed to get a kill with a single hit on numerous occasions. This is most noticeable during CQC where I'm sure that it is a direct hit and not AoE splash damage (due to the wide weapon spacing, one round often misses infantry at close range).

psijaka · 2013-01-29, 07:27 AM

Because the aim is offset slightly to account for the fact that the weapons are widely spaced, being strapped to the outside of the forearms, it is possible to miss at close range and at long range, even when your horizontal aim is apparently spot on.

Edit - I think that it is theoretically possible for the shots to travel either side of your target at very close range; hard to test though. Very commonly, one shot will hit the target.

PredatorFour · 2013-01-29, 07:53 AM

Thinking bout certing into the VS equivalent after reading this , is the VS AV loadout good too ? (farming infantry wise)

psijaka · 2013-01-29, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by PredatorFour

Thinking bout certing into the VS equivalent after reading this , is the VS AV loadout good too ? (farming infantry wise)

No experience of dual Comets as I don't play VS, but from the data it looks as if it's a "one salvo kill" if you land both shots on target. Faster fire rate than the NC and no projectile drop should help too, but on the downside, slower projectiles that are highly visible may give your intended victims a chance to dodge if they are quick.

I would certainly give it a try if I played VS. Let me know how you get on if you do go for it.

Hamma · 2013-01-29, 11:07 AM

All I know is the TR one feels worthless.

Whiteagle · 2013-01-29, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

All I know is the TR one feels worthless.

Indeed, and from looking at the provided data I can guess why...

While both shots will do the same DIRECT damage as a single NC Falcon round, they are also 10 m/s slower and have 33% greater gravity.

The end result is our grenades fly like they're made out of lead while the NC's are tin, giving us shorter arcs.

Of course, since we end up lobbing our shots, those comparative DPS calculations are misleading...

You'd only get 333 DPS if you were miraculously able to land EVERY shot, highly unlikely considering the Pounder has the shortest range of the three.

Recalculating for indirect damage shortens the 51 point DPS gap between the TR and VS down to 30...

TR Indirect damage per second: 133
NC Indirect DPS: 93
VS Indirect DPS: 103

Considering the Comet is the longest ranged AV weapon while the Pounder requires you to be in spiting distance, and BOTH have the same damage radius.... that's a bit of a bitter pill to swallow...

That said, the Comet SHOULD be a Beast even though it has the slowest projectiles; the lack of drop allowing them to set their sluggish plasma blast into a collision course with our poor predictable treaded tanks.

If I were to buff the Pounder to make it useful I'd ether increase the damage radius a bit or, probably more helpful, only increase the INDIRECT damage per shot by an additional 25.
That would give the Pounder an Indirect DPS of 156, while maintaining it's direct hit DPS at 333.
CARPETBOMBING HOOOO!!!

Chewy · 2013-01-29, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by psijaka

Because the aim is offset slightly to account for the fact that the weapons are widely spaced, being strapped to the outside of the forearms, it is possible to miss at close range and at long range, even when your horizontal aim is apparently spot on.

Edit - I think that it is theoretically possible for the shots to travel either side of your target at very close range; hard to test though. Very commonly, one shot will hit the target.

Iv done all 3 of those things and it isn't hard to test. Look at a post in the WG and fire on it. I use those things to test weapons all the time. With the bubble, getting the exact distances can be tough but it'll show you how cross-eyed they are.

psijaka · 2013-01-30, 03:15 AM

@ Whiteagle - the consensus here does seem to be that the TR AV MAX is the poor cousin of the other 2. Maybe a speed buff required, to match the NC?

@ chewy - thanks, will do some tests if I can tear myself away from the fighting!

psijaka · 2013-01-30, 03:21 AM

Well, I've not seen anyone post that they think that AV MAXes are OP. In fact, sounds as if the TR version could do with a buff!

I'll not feel guilty when I go on the rampage with dual Falcons!

Sunrock · 2013-01-30, 03:28 AM

I have tested it AV dual wielding MAX and the big problem for TR is the weight of the rounds. The bullet drop is so heavy that you can only hit anything within short range... If you want to have an accuracy of above 10% that is. So any MBT can more or less shoot you point black before you are able to get in two hits in row.

Whiteagle · 2013-01-30, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by psijaka

@ Whiteagle - the consensus here does seem to be that the TR AV MAX is the poor cousin of the other 2. Maybe a speed buff required, to match the NC?

Eh, I don't think that will work...

Originally Posted by Sunrock

I have tested it AV dual wielding MAX and the big problem for TR is the weight of the rounds. The bullet drop is so heavy that you can only hit anything within short range... If you want to have an accuracy of above 10% that is. So any MBT can more or less shoot you point black before you are able to get in two hits in row.

...Because yeah, our rounds are not only slower but have much higher gravity, so they're still going to drop quickly.

I personally wouldn't mind the short range as long as we got better splash damage to compensate, making us close-up Tank and Infantry murderers but limiting our ability to project beyond mid-range.

Originally Posted by psijaka

Well, I've not seen anyone post that they think that AV MAXes are OP. In fact, sounds as if the TR version could do with a buff!

I'll not feel guilty when I go on the rampage with dual Falcons!

Dude, at least you're not running duel ScatterMAX in a Bio Lab, so we're cool with it.

Emperor Newt · 2013-01-30, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by PredatorFour

Thinking bout certing into the VS equivalent after reading this , is the VS AV loadout good too ? (farming infantry wise)

No. Reload speed on the Cosmos is too slow (and you have to reload after every shot!) and you have to hit spot on with both shots. The aoe damage doesn't cut it (also due to the slow firing speed). You CAN use the AV weapons vs inf as a last resort, but a second AI weapon will make you 1000x more effective.

Whiteagle · 2013-01-30, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by Emperor Newt

No. Reload speed on the Cosmos is too slow (and you have to reload after every shot!) and you have to hit spot on with both shots. The aoe damage doesn't cut it (also due to the slow firing speed). You CAN use the AV weapons vs inf as a last resort, but a second AI weapon will make you 1000x more effective.

But how is it at killing Vehicles?

psijaka · 2013-01-30, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

I have tested it AV dual wielding MAX and the big problem for TR is the weight of the rounds. The bullet drop is so heavy that you can only hit anything within short range... If you want to have an accuracy of above 10% that is. So any MBT can more or less shoot you point black before you are able to get in two hits in row.

Yeah, a bit bizarre that the gravity of the planet is mysteriously increased for TR projectiles. Gravity should be the same as for the NC.