Engineer Mine nerf????

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Figment

@EmperorNewt: boomers and mines in PS1 didn't light up with Q, yet they were easy to spot. Why? They stood out.

As long as you weren't going too fast. The render distance of them will get you dead if you don't notice them in time enough to slow down before hitting too many (in a mine field of course and depending on vehicle type).

[ColdCheese]

Just a curious question, dont mean to thread jack. But do mines remain even after the person laying them dies or leaves the game?

BTW I agree with nerfing Frisbee mines and making them like ammo packs, c4 on the other hand is just perfect the way it is.

[DirtyBird]

Dies, yes.
Leave the game, doubt it. But you can check easily enough.

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by Chaff

.
I agree that C4 & Tank mines are OP. I primarily play Engie over any other role, so I should be motivated to vote "for" them. In no circumstance should an Engie be able to "throw" or drop a mine for any insta kill. Put a 30 second timer on a mine throw/drop.

Cheap kills will be exploited if they're left there in the game. Cheap kills suck. PS2 needs to be quicker to correct these sorts of mistakes/oversights.

This is a case where PS1 mechanics were better (IMO). I also think an Engie should have the ability to lay far more mines, but it should take at least 3-4 mines to kill a healthy MBT. I liked it better that way in PS1.
A Sundy should require 1 or 2 more mines than a MBT to kill. 1 mine should kill a Flash (unless it has the mine sweeper cert & is driving at min speed). 2 Mines for a Lightning kill.

They could make a better emersion with the whole mine thing. It takes a few Engines 5 minutes to mine an entire bridge. It should take an equal effort in time to un-mine a bridge. AT least a full clip or two from your rifle to defeat a single mine.

Add a feature only the Flash gets. The Flash would have to drive at its lowest speed & make two passes ea direction to safely detonate/eliminate a heavily mined bridge.

When you're out laying a mine field - you are exposed to risk. Forcing a Flash to putt up and back a few times returns the favor. It also helps give purpose to those oddballs that may like a vehicle like the Flash. Give it more purpose than just transport a Sniper/INF somehwere out in BFE. Also, allowing a good old gun & foot soldier to shoot them is a nice balance. If we had AP rounds - those would kill a mine quicker than standard rounds. To un-mine a whole bridge full of mines should require one soldier to reload his ammo....in order to do it himself at significant risk (potential) and a significant time loss.

This way, the original Engies that laid out the giant mine field get the benefit of delaying the enemy - even if no vehicles of sofites were harmed.

The deeper the roles - the deeper the emersion. The better balance, measures, and counter measures the better the gameplay is. This game is in early Beta, and needs a lot of improving & tweaking.
.

While I don't share your opinion that C4 and Tank Mines are overpowered, I do agree that Tank mines should:

• Do less damage
• Cost less
• Be able to be carried in far greater numbers
• Require a small amount of time to pass before they become active

Originally Posted by LoliLoveFart

Tank mines damage is fine, the ability to run up to an enemy vehicle click twice and run away before it dies is OP.

Mines should be pre emptive not a "Oh there is an enemy sundy i am going to rambo off this tower and neuter their attack". As it stands you can drop 2 mines on a sunderer before you can be killed and that is a bit much.

If tank mines required a vehicle to move over the top of them instead of a proximity detonation suicide bombing sundies would not happen, well you could drop them and shoot them but that will kill you and takes a lot longer.

Yeah this is probably where most of the drama comes from...

I mean, they've never let us actually lay mine FIELDS, just TWO proximity explosives that gravely injure a tank.
Since you ONLY get TWO, you pretty much have to set them right on TOP of whatever it is you want to damage, and they then have to DO ENOUGH DAMAGE to make that worth while.
It's circular logic!

Be glad if you aren't TR at least, then you aren't saddled with CLAYNONES as well...

Originally Posted by DirtyBird

Dies, yes.
Leave the game, doubt it. But you can check easily enough.

No, I believe they've fixed it so that they'll disappear a set amount of time after you stop being an Engineer, ether through changing class or logging out...

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by CraazyCanuck

Got on this morning to check things out briefly, and in one engagement I was attempting to mine a base for an incoming TR armor convoy and when I went out to add my C4 bricks to the AV placements, the AV placements were gone with the enemy still at the next base and no one, friendly or enemy in sight and no explosions sounds to accompany their destruction if someone had triggered them.

So anyone else notice this? Did SOE nerf the engineer? If so I just wasted considerable certs specing out my mining tree. And no its not OP. Just making it easier for vehicles to have their way of things by limiting counters. The mines and usuage there of were paid heavily for both in certs and with resources. So I hope it was just a glitch.

Anyone else can confirm?

No they are not nerfed... most have been some bug going on for you.

Originally Posted by Figment

Anti-tank mines are OP.


Cert points expenses don't justify crap design and they don't cost any resources worth of note, stop kidding yourself because you like being OP against another poorly designed unit that's also OP in specific ways.

Well you think every thing that has less then 30 min TTK is OP.

PS: How many here would cert into mine guard if a tank mine could not 1 shot tanks?

[Emperor Newt]

Originally Posted by Figment

@EmperorNewt: boomers and mines in PS1 didn't light up with Q, yet they were easy to spot. Why? They stood out.

That's of course another solution. But does anyone think that this is actually going to happen with C4 and mines?

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Well you think every thing that has less then 30 min TTK is OP.

PS: How many here would cert into mine guard if a tank mine could not 1 shot tanks?

Aren't you cute?

1. 30-50% increase on the lower half of infantry weapons only. More the shorter they are. Often simply reduced rate of fire.
Oh wow "30 minutes". we would still be talking ttks of about that on a heavy assault.

Don't be a strawman jerk as the lot of you on ttk discussion. That would be like me saying you only want one shot kills. Don't be a ridiculous fool by being an insulting deliberately misinterpreting brat.

2. More people, since minefields would be far more common. Currently the guarantee is you will be spammed from a distance. Most people therefore use frontal armour or other directional armour.

More, larger minefields would make them a more consistent and omnipresent and harder to evade threat, thus the units leading a charge would be more likely to be given the job of minesweeper.

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by Figment

2. More people, since minefields would be far more common. Currently the guarantee is you will be spammed from a distance. Most people therefore use frontal armour or other directional armour.

More, larger minefields would make them a more consistent and omnipresent and harder to evade threat, thus the units leading a charge would be more likely to be given the job of minesweeper.

This is probably the biggest issue, one that it'd be nice to get some Developer input on.

The individual mines are really powerful so we only get a few of them, but since we only get a few of them they need to be really powerful...

I can't really remember the Combat Engineering debates from Beta, but was it ever mentioned that there would be issues with having a lot of mines set up in one place?

[Figment]

I presume - like backpacks being missing - render issues are the core problem for devs. But to me that seems easy to settle: only render them within spitting distance!

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by Figment

I presume - like backpacks being missing - render issues are the core problem for devs. But to me that seems easy to settle: only render them within spitting distance!

Well that's the thing, they already DO...

...So yeah, are there any more potential issues arising from having fields of mines instead of two crippling ones?

[Mietz]

Right now engi mines are totally faceroll.

The problem is the mechanic of mine placement and damage, which makes them being used as offensive tools:

1. Too much damage from one mine
2. Can be "dropped" on the ground instantly
3. Activates in the time a driver has time to notice that hes being offensively mined

1. If we distributed the damage across more mines, like lets say 5-6 by default (lvl1 cert) nobody would use them for suicide runs to clear out sunderers.
2. Mines should not be able to be dropped from a ledge on a vehicle and explode with the same damage as being placed on the ground. It makes no sense and is massively imbalanced.
3. Mines should need manual activation/arming when placed. Put down mine, hold down "E" for 1 second to arm. Mines are not grenades.

Mines are almost never used for stationary defense because you can't apply them for the use they -should- be used for: area denial.

AV/AI Mines should be a default utility for Engis with cert upgrades to make them better (for example not being able to be detonated by small arms fire or explosives, etc.)

[Dreamcast]

I did threads in Planetside 2 complaining about insta kill mines.


Nobody listened.


Eventually I turn to the dark side and started using them....Is super easy to kill sundys like this.


But seeing how this game is an instakill game, Mines insta killing sundys isn't a huge problem to me anymore.


I say the way to fix this is to make mines gain damage over time when deployed so lets say cap damage in 1000 dmg.....When you deploy it, is 500 dmg......so you can just go and drop them under vehicle and do max damage to them.

[ShadetheDruid]

Don't forget "4. Reduce the resistance from mineguard to bring it in line with the new mine stats". Should really go without saying, but someone's bound to flip their shit if you don't.

[KodanBlack]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

I'd agree that anti-tank mines seem overpowered currently, one-shotting a tank is really OTT.

2-3 mines killing a tank would be fine, so long as they can't be grouped too closely together - there should be some chance to brake or swerve after hitting the first mine and so avoid death. If that means allowing Engis to carry more mines to compensate, then that's fine by me.

Now, I play Engineer, and I REALLY like the idea of giving a decrease in single mine damage, while giving an increase in the number carried. It would do two things, allow a vehicle driver to stop, or alter course, and allow for an engineer to place a small mine field at a key location to force the enemy to react to your strategy.

That would make for a much better game, in my opinion. Strategy and tactics would be increased in employing this idea. On both sides.

And, for any other engineers who don't like this idea, I leave you with this. Any vehicle operator who chose to ignore the first hit would still certainly die pressing the advance. Also, an engineer could begin to control the flow of a battle through the use of fortification style defences, which is at the core of combat engineering. Causing a line of tanks to stop or alter course to deal with your mine field would be epic.

[Mietz]

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

Don't forget "4. Reduce the resistance from mineguard to bring it in line with the new mine stats". Should really go without saying, but someone's bound to flip their shit if you don't.

Well yeah, obviously.