Unreactable TTK= Shotgun..More Nerf/ Less Insta kill - Page 3

Sunrock · 2013-01-31, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by Koadster

I love retards like this who instantly go " omg L2P "

And I love retards that think every one else is a retard that have not the same opinion as they do.

psijaka · 2013-01-31, 06:34 AM

Oh No, not another "TTK is too low" thread......

Baneblade · 2013-01-31, 06:49 AM

I dare anyone to say with a straight face that shotgunners have gotten the drop on them and killed them when any other gun wouldn't have.

Snowfake · 2013-01-31, 07:46 AM

I agree. With such a low TTK it is impossible to react to the auto shotguns so they are little more than noob sticks. Yes they have low ammo and range but its easy enough to run around and get close to someone and then you just nuke their face.
But my biggest problem with shotguns is how there is no loss of accuracy. Especially when a LA is flying through the air he can achieve the same hits he could as if he was crouching... now thats just broke.

psijaka · 2013-01-31, 08:00 AM

Surely the whole point of a shotgun is that it is deadly at close range, and useless at long range. A trade off, in other words.

There's an underlying tone of "UNFAIR" to these threads; when I get jumped by someone when I'm capping a point or repairing a generator, my instinct is not to try and find someone or something to blame for my death, rather I accept the fact that I had been careless, unlucky or just plain outwitted.

I don't cry "that's not fair, I should have had time to react". Instead, I'll be thinking "They got the drop on me there; I should have been more alert" or "Damn, should have placed a Betty on the stairs before I started repairing the genny". And I'll hopefully learn from the experience.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-01-31, 08:05 AM

This is kind of a whiny betty thread.

ShadetheDruid · 2013-01-31, 08:05 AM

That tends to be how I think of it. If I get flanked or surprised, it's usually myself that I get annoyed at because I let my guard down, not at the person who killed me.

Well, maybe sometimes i'll get annoyed at my allies for not watching what's going on around us, and then annoyed at myself for assuming they can, when generally they can be expected not to be.

Assist · 2013-01-31, 08:05 AM

As someone who uses the shotguns quite often, I somewhat agree with you. The auto-shotty should not be a two shot kill, IMO. The semi-auto's maybe, but even then I think it should be three. They have more than enough ammo when certed out, so I don't see why they need to be 2-shot kills.

I think their damage is too high at the 5m range, should be reduced. Maybe compensate that by giving them more damage in the 5-15m range. The problem with that is right now they're pretty much a hipfire sniper rifle with slug ammo, so I'm not really sure that will work. Also, for those who haven't figured it out, don't use slug ammo if you plan to use the gun as a shotgun.

If I land on an Amp tower as a LA and there's three or less people there, they're going to be dead. If it were 3 shots per, there'd be a better chance for those three to have a chance to react.

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

This is kind of a whiny betty thread.

The OP has never, that I've seen, made a post that wasn't him whining about something. Usually about the VS.

Ghoest9 · 2013-01-31, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by GuyShep

This. Before the game even had a closed alpha, people threw the term TTK all over the place, and suggested rather tiny or large numbers. There were moments where people suggested that TTK on most infantry weapons should be at least 6 seconds long.

@Ghoest9, TTK doesn't include engagement time, just how long it takes direct hits to kill as soon as you first hit the guy.

Then why would anyone use it to describe a gun whose main feature is that the other guy has chance to engage you first as you approach?

Mox · 2013-01-31, 09:58 AM

Thats the deal. Take a shotgun and be OP in a radius of 5 meters but loose everthing beyond.

It is all about the right gun for the right circumstances.

psijaka · 2013-01-31, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

Well, maybe sometimes i'll get annoyed at my allies for not watching what's going on around us, and then annoyed at myself for assuming they can, when generally they can be expected not to be.

Yeah, one thing that I've learned the hard way is NEVER to rely on randoms to watch my back, even if I have squadded up with them.

Binkley · 2013-01-31, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Snowfake

But my biggest problem with shotguns is how there is no loss of accuracy. Especially when a LA is flying through the air he can achieve the same hits he could as if he was crouching... now thats just broke.

That's just not true, shotguns lose accuracy tremendously when moving or jumping. The COF is nine times larger if you are moving and twenty times larger if jumping.

Dreamcast · 2013-01-31, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Yet I have manage to do that from time to time with every weapon. That is kill them before they kill me even though they saw me first and fired the first bullet. Ok it's not that often though. Maybe 1 time out 10. But what I try to say is that skill play in here too the weapons TTK in this game is not so high that it's impossible for anyone to not survive if some one see you before you see them, no matter what.

We also have to remember "FPS skills" are more then just accuracy. Situational awareness and tactical know how are also a part of player skill. If you die to a "camper" 9/10 times it's your own fault that he killed you. If you have moved more carefully and expect there is a enemy around every corner and in every bushes at all times the chances are allot higher that you would have killed the camper instead.

However I'm guilty of charging into rooms without checking if they are clear first too. But I never blame any one else then my self when I do that and get killed.

I can take on people who shoot at me first when they have an LMG,Carbine,AR,etc.

I can't take on a shotgun that shoots me first, they usually kill me before I have time to active my Shield, thats how low their TTK is.

I like how you mention moving slower/check each corner will solve the problem.....This came is a fast paced game, if you strafe ADS your sights into every room, you will get destroyed by shotguns.

Stationary targets looking at each corner is no good.

Dreamcast · 2013-01-31, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

I dare anyone to say with a straight face that shotgunners have gotten the drop on them and killed them when any other gun wouldn't have.

Yeah...Shotguns kill me so fast that I can't activate HA shield.

Anyother gun other than the SAW, I still ahve time to react with HA shields and fight back and I usually kill them unless they are very good.

You can't compare the TTK of shotguns from close distance to any other gun IMO.....Is basically a Scatmax.

Dreamcast · 2013-01-31, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by psijaka

Surely the whole point of a shotgun is that it is deadly at close range, and useless at long range. A trade off, in other words.

There's an underlying tone of "UNFAIR" to these threads; when I get jumped by someone when I'm capping a point or repairing a generator, my instinct is not to try and find someone or something to blame for my death, rather I accept the fact that I had been careless, unlucky or just plain outwitted.

I don't cry "that's not fair, I should have had time to react". Instead, I'll be thinking "They got the drop on me there; I should have been more alert" or "Damn, should have placed a Betty on the stairs before I started repairing the genny". And I'll hopefully learn from the experience.

Except even when you more alert and see the enemy with a shotty...He is still gonna kill you superfast in close quarters.

So you either have 3 options to combat this.

Either avoid buildings all together.....or buy a shotty....or keep trying and dying a lot since a shotgun can kill you pratically instantly.

So being alert has nothing to do with it.

and just because the shotgun is worthless in Long range, doesn't mean it should be that powerful in Short Range.

The shotgun as of now is easy mode for any player in close combat...kind like a n00btube but way better and you dont have flak armor to combat it.

Originally Posted by Mox

Thats the deal. Take a shotgun and be OP in a radius of 5 meters but loose everthing beyond.

It is all about the right gun for the right circumstances.

The right circumstance is buildings and people know this...and people just use it their.

Stop making it seem like people are going cover to cover, just managing to live in order to use it in a complete rightly circumstance...

Is really easy to just stay in a building and own with a shotgun.

Originally Posted by Assist

As someone who uses the shotguns quite often, I somewhat agree with you. The auto-shotty should not be a two shot kill, IMO. The semi-auto's maybe, but even then I think it should be three. They have more than enough ammo when certed out, so I don't see why they need to be 2-shot kills.

I think their damage is too high at the 5m range, should be reduced. Maybe compensate that by giving them more damage in the 5-15m range. The problem with that is right now they're pretty much a hipfire sniper rifle with slug ammo, so I'm not really sure that will work. Also, for those who haven't figured it out, don't use slug ammo if you plan to use the gun as a shotgun.

If I land on an Amp tower as a LA and there's three or less people there, they're going to be dead. If it were 3 shots per, there'd be a better chance for those three to have a chance to react.

The OP has never, that I've seen, made a post that wasn't him whining about something. Usually about the VS.

I appreciate your honesty and insights into this manner.

3 shots could make it better