What determines who wins more often? Player skill, Population, or Faction imbalance? - Page 3

Ghoest9 · 2013-02-25, 07:19 PM

@ OP

If you look at starter weapons the VS is a way way better choice than the NC - especially for average and worse players(which is half the player base) simply because they are easier to use effectively
And many players use starter weapons.

So thats a big deal.

Secondly - ROF does matter because of the flinch code. Its not the only thing that matters a good player will beat a bad player. But to equal players going head to head the flinch code offers a modest advantage is to one with a higher ROF.

Its not BIG deal but its annoying to see it dimissed.

The second point is significant - but is sometimes overstated because you can upgrade to faster weapons eventually.

But the first point imatters - especially any time there is new players. And it probably has had an effect on populations.

BIGGByran · 2013-02-25, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

Well it's going to differ player to player is my guess, even by a small margin. Which is just a testament to the balance done originally by SoE.

Best infantry weapons - NC,VS,TR
Best MAX - NC,TR,VS
Best ESF - TR,VS,NC
Best Tank - TR,VS,NC

Really should start another thread about this, like I said above I think most people will have different opinions on it in one way or another.

Best infantry weapons - VS,TR,NC
Best MAX - NC=TR,VS
Best ESF - TR,VS,NC
Best Tank - TR,VS,NC

Population imbalance generally determines who wins more.
Player Skill would generally determine who wins but since we have unlimited spawns, Player's skill gets down graded.

Sifer2 · 2013-02-25, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by BIGGByran

Best infantry weapons - VS,TR,NC
Best MAX - NC=TR,VS
Best ESF - TR,VS,NC
Best Tank - TR,VS,NC

Population imbalance generally determines who wins more.
Player Skill would generally determine who wins but since we have unlimited spawns, Player's skill gets down graded.

Did you mean the put the equal sign between TR, and VS in the MAX category? Cause that is more accurate as they are nearly clones. While the NC MAX is in a class of it's own as a indoor combat dominating monster.

I agree though that population trumps skill right now. With the way the hex system works, and fast respawn timers.

Neutral Calypso · 2013-02-25, 08:02 PM

What determines who wins is what little outfit has the most strategic mindset combined with individual player skill.

I have seen the zergs just collide with each other and go nowhere... then suddenly, my outfit comes along and actually STANDS ON THE POINTS and things get done.

Larington · 2013-02-25, 08:30 PM

My personal opinion is that victory or defeat is based on two things - incompetence and random chance.

Incompetence - Someone makes a mistake, sometimes that mistake is exploited, like not paying attention whilst driving and losing all your momentum because you crashed into a tree... Just as a reaver/mosquito/scythe comes over the hill. Incompetence is especially significant when it comes to getting farmed by air because only one person bothered to pull a burster MAX instead of two or three people. One on one a rocket podding ESF will almost always beat an AA MAX because it can outmanoeuvre the MAX or just come back later to ambush it after some repairs.
I also think it especially applies in the form of players not watching the mini-map like a hawk, I do, and in combination with a radar Flash it can save my life countless times.

Random chance - Does that prowler come around the corner when you're facing towards it, or away from it. In one case you might escape, in the other you're almost certainly dead.

I feel these decide the results of a battle more than anything, and they are both happening CONSTANTLY in both big and small ways.

camycamera · 2013-02-25, 08:49 PM

i think if it is a game like this, teamwork usually wins, i.e organised outfits.

Tatwi · 2013-02-25, 09:15 PM

1. Who sees who first.
2. Frame rate.
3. Rate of fire.

Cheating trumps all and everything else is frivolous.

Saintlycow · 2013-02-26, 12:23 AM

Yeah, I hate the official forums. Only go there to talk about the flash.

Anyways, I suppose I should mention weapon balance.

Best infantry weapons - VS=TR,NC (I feel this is very small margin. VS no drop is directly countered by the degradation, so it's a non-factor) VS accuracy and TR extra bullets give them the edge over the hard hitting, but low fire rate NC guns. Seems that ROF>all

Best MAX - NC,TR=VS (I never play VS max, but NC is sooo good inside the biolabs in the rooms, while VS and TR are better at the pads. The whole range thing is quite BS, because you never see a group of maxes running around in a field)

Best ESF - TR,VS,NC (As VS, I feel like the speed of TR gives them an edge)

Best Tank - TR,VS,NC (Pendulum swung a bit too far in favor of TR. They also have the INFantry killing abilities, which need a nerf) Tank V Tank is fine, tank V inf needs work. I never get killed by vanguards while running infantry.

So, factions are fairly balanced.

As for Skill, I am feel it does not play enough of a role. Skilled players should be rewarded more.

So that leaves it with Population. I really feel like this game could be called zergside. When ever I play, it feels like it's "zerg or be zerged". Don't get me wrong, I like massive battles, but these don't seem to happen. The harsh reality is that zergs never clash, and fight small opposition. This fun for no one. Zergs should be guided towards each other, as was the case in the UES and during most FNO. For example, this last FNO with the SENTS was great in this regard. All the zergs were situated around Vanu archives, allowing for tactical work on the flanks instead of dealing directly with the hostile zerg.

Also, the map plays a large role, what with the crown being "easier" to assault from the north, and the SE gate being a steaming pile.

Mordelicius · 2013-02-26, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

Current balance:

Best infantry weapons - TR,VS,NC
Best MAX - NC,VS,TR
Best ESF - VS,TR,NC
Best Tank - TR,VS,NC

All things equal, meaning: equal population, equal skill and equal organization,

Vanu wins infantry fights in their sleep.
TR wins with their Prowlers with tank battles.
Scythe has slight edge over the Mosquito since they are harder to hit.
NC Max wins cqc, TR wins on sustained medium fire and Vanu has the long-range sniper Max. In usefulness NC has slight edge because of the CQC nature of specialized Biolab fights.

My take on current balance:
Infantry Weapons: VS>TR>>NC
Best Max: NC>TR>Vanu
Best ESF: VS>TR>NC
Best Tank: TR>VS>NC

Much like the Magrider nerf, I can't wait until GU4 when they have finished the major weapon balance pass. I'd say Vanu rules like hell on K/D. They have a much higher effective DPS with stupidly OP combination of accuracy, high ROF and no recoil

Logically, it should have been:
NC: High Damage, low ROF, low accuracy, medium recoil
TR: High ROF, low damage, low accuracy, medium recoil
VS: High Accuracy, low damage, low ROF, medium recoil

As it is, NC has High Damage ( like 10-20% bonus) with low ROF, low accuracy and maddening recoil. Not to mention the flinch screen given to us by high rof TR and Vanu.

Koadster · 2013-02-26, 07:52 AM

This is why I barely read the official forums.. Its even degraded into people comparing stats now to see whos opinion matters more.. just like BF3. Notice how the devs actaully post in this one but you dont see anything in the official ones.. lol says alot about what the devs really think of the ideas and threads over there.

To post above ^... I found the NC Gauss Rifle and Merc carbine awesome. Id take the Gauss rifle over the T1 cycler anyday! Its just a different playstyle you have to adapt too, its not your typical run and gun weapons like COD/BF3 and because of whatever reason the younger kids are drawn to the NC (maybe the rock music and wanting to be rebels, sticking it to the man!) But they get annoyed when they cant run and gun rambo style. With my TR and NC toons I kill and get killed by each faction evenly.

Assist · 2013-02-26, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mordelicius

All things equal, meaning: equal population, equal skill and equal organization,

Vanu wins infantry fights in their sleep.
TR wins with their Prowlers with tank battles.
Scythe has slight edge over the Mosquito since they are harder to hit.
NC Max wins cqc, TR wins on sustained medium fire and Vanu has the long-range sniper Max. In usefulness NC has slight edge because of the CQC nature of specialized Biolab fights.

My take on current balance:
Infantry Weapons: VS>TR>>NC
Best Max: NC>TR>Vanu
Best ESF: VS>TR>NC
Best Tank: TR>VS>NC

Much like the Magrider nerf, I can't wait until GU4 when they have finished the major weapon balance pass. I'd say Vanu rules like hell on K/D. They have a much higher effective DPS with stupidly OP combination of accuracy, high ROF and no recoil

Logically, it should have been:
NC: High Damage, low ROF, low accuracy, medium recoil
TR: High ROF, low damage, low accuracy, medium recoil
VS: High Accuracy, low damage, low ROF, medium recoil

As it is, NC has High Damage ( like 10-20% bonus) with low ROF, low accuracy and maddening recoil. Not to mention the flinch screen given to us by high rof TR and Vanu.

I'd love to know where these myths come from.

VS have nearly the same recoil as NC, in fact in some weapons most would consider it worse for VS because the first shot recoil is worse. Take a look at the weapons charts sometime before saying stuff like that :\ Overall NC weapons are a bit worse in recoil, but not by very much.
Same with the ESF's, the Mosquito has the smallest hitbox not the Scythe. The Mosquito also has more maneuverability due to the speed having a direct effect on turn speed in the air.
Also the VS MAX being a long range sniper? O.o Have you tried to use one ever, there's nothing sniper about it. It's nice to have range, but the CoF accuracy is on par with your scattermax.
Effective DPS is completely dependent on player skill. But since you brought it up, TR have the highest theoretical DPS as they also have the highest average RoF.

I'm fairly sure most of the balancing issues people have with the game are those individuals listening to their buddies spread rumors about the other factions. Myths - always debunked by doing a little research on your own.

Dkamanus · 2013-02-26, 08:46 AM

My take on current balance:
Infantry Weapons: VS=TR>>NC
Best Max: NC>TR=Vanu
Best ESF: VS>TR>NC
Best Tank: TR>VS=NC

Tank balance has been almost achieved, just some less damage on the HEAT and AP damage and it's gold.

Mavvvy · 2013-02-26, 08:57 AM

Population population population. Skill may determine a skirmish, or influence a fight, but it comes down to numbers in the end.

With no time penalty to each consecutive death, numbers will always be able to brute force any skilled defenders/attackers.

A ps1 feature I sorely miss.

Phreec · 2013-02-26, 10:36 AM

Define "win".

In a 1v1 situation it's only down to player skill and faction imbalance while in the big picture population is the most important factor, but player skill and imba faction traits still affect the results.

MrBloodworth · 2013-02-26, 10:39 AM

It comes down to numbers due to the base design.

Defenseable bases are historically designed to allow a small force to repel one 10 times its size.