Default arsenal should contain a shotgun/SMG

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

I also agree that carbines, assault rifles etc. are more versatile than shotguns. Which is also why I normally use them, even in very close quarters.

Should be but aren't...

The other day at Indar Comm I was facing down another Light Assualt with my range kitted AMC...

...Was wondering why he bothered to close by going around and over the building instead of just sniping when he two-shotted me on his way down from the roof...
Shotgun blues man.

[Rolfski]

Let me get this clear. It's not so much the shotguns I worry about although I'm not a fan of insta-kill mechanics.
It's the infiltrators as one of the best CQB classes that I think should be available as a default.

[simmi]

People crying about shotguns... what are you guys smoking? Shotguns are only a viable option on the towers or in closed rooms in bio labs. That is ALL. I use Gauss Compact S way more than a shotgun. How do you expect to one hit kill someone at more than 10m? Get serious. I play LA. I kill a lot of people that are carrying shotguns. This is what you do: Run away from them, look back, kill them. It works 50% of the time even in bio labs. At Tech plants and Amp stations any1 carrying a shotgun is a moron. Only place shotguns are OP is in the towers, but that's OK they need to be useful SOMEWHERE. I only use shotguns 10% of the time I play. I am opposed to one hit shotguns. For example, the pump action ones, but two hit shotguns are completely and totally fair at the moment because of their specialized utilization. I use Mauler S6 at the moment which takes two hits to kill unless it's a headshot. Sometimes takes 4 hits on heavies at 7-10m.

[Timealude]

Originally Posted by simmi

People crying about shotguns... what are you guys smoking? Shotguns are only a viable option on the towers or in closed rooms in bio labs. That is ALL. I use Gauss Compact S way more than a shotgun. How do you expect to one hit kill someone at more than 10m? Get serious. I play LA. I kill a lot of people that are carrying shotguns. This is what you do: Run away from them, look back, kill them. It works 50% of the time even in bio labs. At Tech plants and Amp stations any1 carrying a shotgun is a moron. Only place shotguns are OP is in the towers, but that's OK they need to be useful SOMEWHERE. I only use shotguns 10% of the time I play. I am opposed to one hit shotguns. For example, the pump action ones, but two hit shotguns are completely and totally fair at the moment because of their specialized utilization. I use Mauler S6 at the moment which takes two hits to kill unless it's a headshot. Sometimes takes 4 hits on heavies at 7-10m.

what about the ones that are smart and ambush you?

[Snydenthur]

Originally Posted by simmi

I am opposed to one hit shotguns. For example, the pump action ones, but two hit shotguns are completely and totally fair at the moment because of their specialized utilization. I use Mauler S6 at the moment which takes two hits to kill unless it's a headshot. Sometimes takes 4 hits on heavies at 7-10m.

So you hate pump actions, but you like the much better and more forgiving shotguns? If you have a problem with pump actions, you definately should have a problem with semi auto and auto shotguns. You don't really have a chance against them. Pump action is easy to fight against, since they are punished for missing the shot.

[Kail]

Originally Posted by Timealude

what about the ones that are smart and ambush you?

Then it doesn't matter what gun (or knife) they use.

[Sifer2]

Originally Posted by Snydenthur

So you hate pump actions, but you like the much better and more forgiving shotguns? If you have a problem with pump actions, you definately should have a problem with semi auto and auto shotguns. You don't really have a chance against them. Pump action is easy to fight against, since they are punished for missing the shot.

The Semi's give you a chance as it's two shots to kill or three depending on hit detection luck at it's ideal range. You can be mowed down by hip fire of a Carbine/SMG in that time. I know i've done it several times to semi shotgunners. Pumps however instantly kill you. So you never really feel you had a chance. Even Heavies with their shields up instantly die. This is why people dislike the weapon. It's only fun if your the one using it.


Anyway to the topic creator I think he makes valid points. However even though it's selfish I am glad Shotguns are behind a pay wall. Since probably 60% or more of the players of the game are free players. That's a lot of people who are not yet whoring out shotguns thus making CQC not quite so annoying. It really would indeed become Shotgunside 2 if everyone had them by default no doubt. The solution the second post had of making cheaper NS variants is better though as others have said it feels there is enough of these weapons already.

[Snydenthur]

Originally Posted by Sifer2

The Semi's give you a chance as it's two shots to kill or three depending on hit detection luck at it's ideal range. You can be mowed down by hip fire of a Carbine/SMG in that time. I know i've done it several times to semi shotgunners. Pumps however instantly kill you. So you never really feel you had a chance. Even Heavies with their shields up instantly die. This is why people dislike the weapon. It's only fun if your the one using it.

No, you're over exaggerating like everyone. Pump actions do not have a 100% chance to kill with one hit. From my experience, both using and being shot by them, they are more often 2-3 hit kill rather than killing with one shot. That's why semi and auto shotguns are better, they are very forgiving and they kill faster. Unless you encounter idiots that just run into you and don't know what they are even doing.

If they were 100% sure one shot kill superweapons, how is it possible that I hardly ever die to them? And why people don't even use them? If they were overpowered, I'd expect to see a lot of people using them, but they are very unused weapons.

[Sifer2]

Originally Posted by Snydenthur

No, you're over exaggerating like everyone. Pump actions do not have a 100% chance to kill with one hit. From my experience, both using and being shot by them, they are more often 2-3 hit kill rather than killing with one shot. That's why semi and auto shotguns are better, they are very forgiving and they kill faster. Unless you encounter idiots that just run into you and don't know what they are even doing.

If they were 100% sure one shot kill superweapons, how is it possible that I hardly ever die to them? And why people don't even use them? If they were overpowered, I'd expect to see a lot of people using them, but they are very unused weapons.

Maybe people don't use them on your server. They do on mine. And they kill in one shot at the usual indoor engagement range. It's still fairly common to see LA's swooping in on folks an dropping them like flies with them. It's really just about knowing what your doing. Putting yourself into positions where the person will have to approach you at close range then instant gibbing them. They have no real way of knowing your using a Pump Action until its too late. They are not idiots just because they can't know in advance you have a weapon that auto wins indoor combat.

[TheSaltySeagull]

Originally Posted by Snydenthur

No, you're over exaggerating like everyone. Pump actions do not have a 100% chance to kill with one hit. From my experience, both using and being shot by them, they are more often 2-3 hit kill rather than killing with one shot. That's why semi and auto shotguns are better, they are very forgiving and they kill faster. Unless you encounter idiots that just run into you and don't know what they are even doing.

If they were 100% sure one shot kill superweapons, how is it possible that I hardly ever die to them? And why people don't even use them? If they were overpowered, I'd expect to see a lot of people using them, but they are very unused weapons.

The auto and semi shotguns are more forgiving but the PA is more rewarding to people who can actually aim as it has longer range due to its tighter spread and of course the potential to OHK. And as far as nobody is using them that is bull. They are without a doubt the most common shotguns used currently.

I do not think that the PA is "op" because statistically they are inline with the other shotguns. You gain a range and damage advantage at the cost of lower RoF, ammo capacity, and longer reload speed. However it is a "lame" design. OHK weapons are not fun for people on the receiving end because there is the potential to straight up auto-lose without being able to react. And the PA shotguns are by far the worst of the OHK weapons to play against right now because they are the easiest of the OHK weapons to use right now. If you have even half way decent aim you will be able to score a OHK the majority of the time.

[KodanBlack]

Originally Posted by phungus

Shotguns are so stupid in their current implementation. Shotguns and MAXes are all there is in infantry fighting now, so glad I can use an ESF and ignore the cooky cutter shotgun loadout that defines PS2 infantry play.

Instead, using the cookie cutter rocketpod loadout that defines PS2 air power.

Serious question? How can you guys play infantry for any amount of time? Do you all just run around with OP shotguns? I can do it for maybe 10 minutes before reaching my breaking point, having half my enemies get a weapon that can instagib me at medium and closer ranges without needing to be aimed is just asinine.

Rhetorical answer, the same way that an ESF pilot can stand the contiual strafing runs with what many consider OP rocketpods against loads of infantry. It's flipping FUN!

This game has one of the worst weapon balances in infantry I have ever seen. It's just pump action and auto shotties and no other viable weapons... even doom2 was better. The only reason to play is for the ESF.

So that you can simply farm infantry and not have to face shotguns doing so?

Look, there are no one sided ways to play this game. Complaints about something being OP are silly to me after I sit back (for no more than a moment) to think of effective counters to what I've run into.

Infantry combat, even in (especially in) close quarters, is dynamic and exciting. Are there a lot of shotguns? Hell yeah, they excel in close quarters (I'm pretty sure that was how they were designed), but I see a huge number of SMG's, LMG's and other weapons in the mix, all doing just as well. I've even been using my SMG, NS-11C and NS-15M a lot more lately and I love them! They're effective at more than one range and extremely versatile when compared to a shotgun. That said, I won't hang up my shotguns. They have their role, even if it is a narrow one.

[Figment]

It would make sense under the "have everything anyway" system.


Personally I'd like to see more sensible flexibility and restriction...