Why are harassers in the game? - Page 3

Taramafor · 2013-11-15, 02:54 PM

There's a simple fix to engineers on the back seat.

Set the first person view at an upwards angle so that when you look down, you can't reach the edge of the harasser. Doesn't have to be a lot, but just enough to stop people on the back seat reaching to the sides.

That or put people a but more forward on the back seat so they can't reach them looking side to side.

GeoGnome · 2013-11-15, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Wahooo

I think the weaponry on the harasser, especially the AV types are a bit of a separate issue, thought they are more powerful than I would have expected from the design, but this dev team from the start has not understood that dedicated driver and gunner IS more powerful than a combo driver-gunner role.

The thing with the harasser is that it has great power, speed and maneuverability, good. We need a ground vehicle like this. BUT it has amazing survivability on top of the speed and maneuverability. With maxxed composite armor and the engie jumping into the rumble seat the ability to stay alive and quickly get back into the fight is just too much.

I'm not against the tools it has, but being able to have all of them at once without sacrificing something is too much. There should have been all along more give with the take on many fronts with vehicle certs and maybe weapon certs as well. The way the certs were explained way back pre-tech test was that we would be improving aspects but sacrificing in other areas... well the only sacrifice is that we aren't able to have both of something. I really believe the improvement of one aspect needs a SLIGHT nerf to something else.

With the harasser, maxing out the composite armor should slow it down. Not a ton, but at least a bit.

This is pretty much right along with my opinion as well. Balancing the weapons, which is what they seem to be focusing on for the most part, wont really balance out this vehicle as much as people are asking.

You have to take away some of that speed to balance with survivability, otherwise these changes will do nothing.

It makes sense too, the harasser is a lighter vehicle, so it should be slowed by heavier armor being put on it.

As to the Harasser as a vehicle... seriously, it's more effective because you have 2 people instead of 1 driving and gunning. Period. It will Always be more effective for that reason. Even after they change the weapons and people have to stick to long range halberd bombardment... it'll Still be a nightmare for logistically deficient forces.

MBT's need another 30% buff to health, and a third seat on all but the magrider, as well as a coaxial gun for infantry that can be used by the driver.

synkrotron · 2013-11-16, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by Plaqueis

There should be an imaginary balance too in order to make the game fair regardless the side.

Nah.

Obstruction · 2013-11-16, 07:15 AM

we bomb the hell out of harassers all day long from our Lib.

very often we fly down low over them and follow them hitting V-5 "I need a ride!" "wait up! let me hop in!".

they don't seem too OP to me.

Snoopy · 2013-11-16, 12:33 PM

Fancy that.

Belhade · 2013-11-16, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Taramafor

There's a simple fix to engineers on the back seat.

Yeah, shoot them out. Harassers are vulnerable to small arms fire; if a 3-man Harasser comes by get 3 men (preferably a HA or two) to take it out. Kill the engy in the rumble and you've eliminated one of its biggest assets. They'll have to retreat and regroup, move the gunner (if he happens to be an engy) or risk getting wasted. Small arms are generally easier to train on such a fast target compared to vehicle-mounted guns.

Wahooo · 2013-11-16, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Belhade

Yeah, shoot them out. Harassers are vulnerable to small arms fire; if a 3-man Harasser comes by get 3 men (preferably a HA or two) to take it out. Kill the engy in the rumble and you've eliminated one of its biggest assets. They'll have to retreat and regroup, move the gunner (if he happens to be an engy) or risk getting wasted. Small arms are generally easier to train on such a fast target compared to vehicle-mounted guns.

While this is true, think about it relative to other vehicles. I don't personally have an issue with the ability it has, but also feel as I pointed out it needs to give up something in the overall arsenal to be balanced.
You shoot up a tank with some HA rockets, and your own vehicles, enough it runs away, barely survives, MUST make it to a hopefully safe place to stop and either the driver or the gunner, or both jump out and hope they can rep the tank while being a sitting target if they didn't run far enough away.

The harasser? Even if you kill the rumble seat engi (and frankly most of the hardcore buggy farmers I've seen only run with two anyway so the gunner jumps into the back and starts repping while they are still driving away, and with their speed they can get farther or safer than the tank. Overall less risk.
Maybe if the gunner couldn't just jump into the rumble seat on the fly I wouldn't mind the speed and composite armor thing. If they had exit the vehicle to get in the rumble seat it would at least put them at a bit more risk, and make the third person more valuable but also a more valuable target, since as it is now even if the are running 3, if a dedicated 3rd seat engie gets killed then the gunner can swap.

Taramafor · 2013-11-16, 08:17 PM

The other advantage of the back seat? HA deci. I like to hop on the back all the time for a bit more punch against tanks/suns and to pop some HMG rounds in a LA's face. Of course, knowing when to use that super shield helps keep you alive too.

DredVS · 2013-11-16, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Wahooo

The only issues with harassers is that the concept of "sidegrades" failed. The composite armor needs to severely nerf the speed and handling as the protection levels up.

That's actually a really good idea.

-10KPH when equipping the Composite Armor. Nothing too drastic.

It actually gives you a reason to equip Auto-Repair or the other options. If you want to go fast, don't equip Composite Armor.

Redshift · 2013-11-17, 11:59 AM

Shoot it with your rifle, they have paper thin armour, the only reason they stay alive so long is people try to deci them and miss, if three guys turn around and unload a clip on it it'll explode.

basti · 2013-11-17, 06:18 PM

A MTB wih a proper crew, outfitted to kill vehicles, will beat a Harry with a proper crew, outfitted to kill vehicles.

War Barney · 2013-11-17, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Redshift

Shoot it with your rifle, they have paper thin armour, the only reason they stay alive so long is people try to deci them and miss, if three guys turn around and unload a clip on it it'll explode.

Your a harasser driver aren't you.. no that does not work cos most of them have amazing armour and drive so fast that its not even practical hitting them with normal guns then consider that they will most likely drive right over you or one shot you with one of their amazing weapons while repairing the tiny damage you're doing and your idea turns into the worst idea ever.

If there was bars of stats for the vehicles including speed armour and damage right now a harasser would be maxed on speed and damage and pretty close on armour thanks to their upgrades and a engi in the back, they are just hands down the best ground based vehicle in the game for open areas. Sure a tank is better in bases as they have a bit more armour but out in the open a harasser can and does kill anything. I spend most of my time blowing up vehicles on my heavy... I'm happy to fight anything, mags, lightning, prowlers, I'll sneak up on or rocket any of them dead, but a harasser.. those I don't even bother with cos I know full well if they spot me they'll just drive around me at 100mph while shooting rockets at me, its a no hope fight.

Does nobody see a issue when people are more terrified of a buggy than any other heavy armour in the game?

synkrotron · 2013-11-18, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by War Barney

but a harasser.. those I don't even bother with cos I know full well if they spot me they'll just drive around me at 100mph while shooting rockets at me, its a no hope fight.

This is kind of what I am saying... Even running away from something is a way of dealing with it.

There must be a way for a squad to redeply and respawn with the right gear for the job. I've managed to take out Harassers with my MANA AV turret when they are on open ground. Ain't easy, but I'm the most crap PS2 player online so if I can do it I'm sure all you experts can...

MrEclectic · 2013-11-18, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by TheDrone

Continually introducing new "content" is done because PS2 is a themepark mmo, not a sandbox.

Even EVE introduces new content with updates, and it is the definition of sandbox MMO.

Babyfark McGeez · 2013-11-19, 11:35 AM

I gotta say, even though i still think harassers are too agile and mobile for what they can do, i found a very good way of getting these annoying buggers down:

3-man basilisk sunderers.

Those are generally pretty awesome, and with just 4 certs invested (2x first zoom, 2x ammo) you allready have a valid counter against any harasser, given you find two gunners.