ever any talk about MECH's? - Page 3

Robot · 2003-05-08, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
You think tons of people are going to pay 8 certs for anything? Especially something that can't be used at all for one of the most important things in the game (base capping)? You're nuts. Of course it's still available, the point is by making it double any other cert in the game (hell make it 10 I don't care) you'd limit the number of them on the field.

It doesn't matter if it's a high certification, the fact is, it would be overpowering simply because it would be a one person tank that has more mobility and control than a two-person tank. That's unbalancing.

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
So you have no trouble swallowing the other holes in the logic and physics of the game and plot, but a Mech is just waaay too out there? I don't have any problem over-looking the holes in the game, because it's fun, but then I'm also not going to cry unrealistic just because I don't want something in the game.

You were saying that being, "realistic" was dumb, to which I replied that being realistic is dumb, but there should be a sense of realism. I wasn't debating that mechs are possible.

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
If you'll note, I also said I'm against them in game, which means I'm on your side, dumbass. I could have been clearer but I never really argued for them either, just poked holes in bad arguments. I just feel if you're going to argue against something you should probably use halfway decent arguments.

And I'm refuting these arguments with other arguments, because I'm against mechs, which means I should re-inforce all arguments against them. There really isn't any debate here, is there?

Happy lil Elf · 2003-05-08, 02:52 PM

Mechs are anything but manuverable compared to tanks, unless you're talking a 20 ton mech in which case yeah they're fast, can't turn at all while cruising...and have a machine gun. You also fail to consider that they don't necesarily have to be single manned. In fact d0rian (as much as I hate to point out anything said by the flaiming retard) talks in his second post about making them two manned. Pilot and gunner. We aren't talking about porting a Daishi directly into the game. We talking about big walking robots with guns which can mean tons of different things.

Realsim, or rather a sense thereof:
You're still not getting it. Did you ever play any of the mechwarrior games? They all did a great job of creating a sense of realism. A sense of realism is not the issue. With or without mechs Planetside would be just as believable, or unbelievable depending on how you look at it I suppose.

which means I should re-inforce all arguments against them

You're saying you're simply reinforcing all arguments against Mechs beacuse you don't believe they should be in? That's illogical. If you're arguing against 2+2=5 and someone else makes the argument 2+2 does not equal 5 because if it did the planets would align and summon a world eating demon. Extreme example I know but you can't just reinforce faulty arguments just because they happen to be from people who also believe your main point.

Robot · 2003-05-08, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
Mechs are anything but manuverable compared to tanks, unless you're talking a 20 ton mech in which case yeah they're fast, can't turn at all while cruising...and have a machine gun. You also fail to consider that they don't necesarily have to be single manned. In fact d0rian (as much as I hate to point out anything said by the flaiming retard) talks in his second post about making them two manned. Pilot and gunner. We aren't talking about porting a Daishi directly into the game. We talking about big walking robots with guns which can mean tons of different things.

Yeah, while mechs can be balanced, I guess it's up to the devs overall if something will go in or not, so debating the merit of it is pointless

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
Realsim, or rather a sense thereof:
You're still not getting it. Did you ever play any of the mechwarrior games? They all did a great job of creating a sense of realism. A sense of realism is not the issue. With or without mechs Planetside would be just as believable, or unbelievable depending on how you look at it I suppose.

Still, it doesn't seem to fit the world somehow. It's like how riding elephants wouldn't fit into the Mechwarrior universe.

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
If you're arguing against 2+2=5 and someone else makes the argument 2+2 does not equal 5 because if it did the planets would align and summon a world eating demon. Extreme example I know but you can't just reinforce faulty arguments just because they happen to be from people who also believe your main point.

None of these arguments are faulty. They have points that need to be smoothed out, yes, but they all work, just as the arguments for mechs do work.

FearTheAtlas · 2003-05-08, 03:41 PM

I'll ask this simple question as my answer: Who cares?

tmartinez72 · 2003-05-08, 03:57 PM

Screw mechs. We need portable hangliders! For infils. They can jump off cliffs and swoop into enemy bases ninja style!

Tankboy! · 2003-05-08, 08:17 PM

Just some minor info for ya, AP rounds would do less damage to a 'soft' target. reason being, they are designed to exert the larger portion of their kinetic energy into the armor itself. best way to do this is to have a super dense, hardened jacket on the round. The way this works in PS can be surmised like so: The light armors infantry wear are simply too thin and flexible to force the AP round to bury its remaining KE in the flesh of the target, the AP round simple passes right through the armor and the flesh. If you've got the resources, this is a fun way to learn about kinetic energy weapons- Fill a clear plastic jug with jello or something similar ( raw knox gelatin works great for this) and then take your trusty .45 caliber handgun and put a slug into the jug from 5 feet away. Now wipe the gelatin off your clothing and get out your second jug. Now take your trusty m16 variant and put a .223 jacketed round through the jug. Makes a neat line in and out of the jug. Now take your third jug, put a 1/4 inch steel plate in front of it and fire the .45 again, duck the ricochet and pick up your rifle. Shoot the plate and then take a look at the jug. messy.
Ballistic physics are just neat. ( sorry for the length, just not something you can explain clearly in a short space)

Oh, and mechs would be paste on the average PS battlefield, slap on enough armor to make small arms ineffective and you would be fast enough to avoid AV weapons, and vice versa. The support gunship idea has merit, make it a 3 person job with a pilot, gunner and weapons officer, and make it a bit of a pig to fly, between reaver and galaxy handling.

keam02 · 2003-05-08, 08:30 PM

about the invisible, the japanese are developing a way to make things, not people, invisible. Yes, I'm not lying, the most useful way would be like the bottom of an aircraft to see what is below you. Thats not to say that human invisibility is never going to happen. I like the believe in stuff like this anyways cause thats jsut me.

HS Warwolf · 2003-05-09, 12:07 AM

About the subject of mechs. I'm a mech fanatic and I own just about every game that has come out for the series. I have a few points for u guys.
1.Mechs are not all powerful. I've seen 40 ton mechs cut to peices by a pack of 4-8 tanks, a pack of 5 bombers, or even a pack of 3 elementals. (think of Max's with missiles, machine guns, and Flamers)
2. Unless your thinking of putting all the classes of mechs 15-100 tons, then yes it would be unbalancing. If you just stick to the 15-45 ton classes, then it would be just the same as a pack of tanks attacking a a squad of infantry.
3. The people who pilot these monstrosities are the ELITE of the ELITE. your looking at probably 15 or more certification points to pilot one in terms of planetside. It's not like a rookie pilot could strap into a 50 ton mecha nd go blow crap up. He would have to be a pretty battle hardened and then he has to go through the wight classes. first light, and so on.
4. One mech couldn't single handedly take on an entire base by itself. You still need infantry, air support and maybe a tank platoon.
5. There are fundemental strategies to defeating a mech if ur an infanrtymen or a MAX dude. just run up to his legs and run around shooting at him while trying not to be stepped on.
6. and last, mechs do not carry around GOD weapons like a nuclear war head or a huge super laser. They just carry around the same basic weapons that the infantry and the tank divisions carry around only they carry them in bundles.
I'm probably forgetting something but oh well.

Nekota · 2003-05-09, 12:19 AM

All I can say is good luck navigating your unwieldy Mech through the unmovable folliage that'll make your experience much like Gullivar's and the Lilpusions

.

SpongeBob · 2003-05-09, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by keam02
about the invisible, the japanese are developing a way to make things, not people, invisible. Yes, I'm not lying, the most useful way would be like the bottom of an aircraft to see what is below you. Thats not to say that human invisibility is never going to happen. I like the believe in stuff like this anyways cause thats jsut me.

Two words: Predator movies

HS Warwolf · 2003-05-09, 09:10 PM

I heard about that. Something with nano tech using the robots to make different colors to blend in wit the suroundings.
And back to what I said yesterday. If they add mechs there goin to have to add a few new features such as destructible trees, and stepping on poeple. They'd also have to add a feature letting the mechs destroy tanks and MAX's when you step on em like the infantry. What's the point in piloting something 2-3 stories tall when you can't even step on a 5-foot man.

HS Warwolf · 2003-05-10, 03:16 PM

This is how I picture mechs in ps. An elite soldier climps up a ladder into his Raven light combat mech, packed with jamming electronics. He powers up the reactor. His mech comes to life. The pilot carfully steers his mech up into one of the large dropships hangerd in the base. he is carful not to step on any of the three tanks or any of the light infantry or MAX's he must share the space with. The dropship lifts off heading for one of the enemy's base. While waiting, he powers up the weapons. Suddenly, there is a hard thud. The dropship has landed. A huge door swings open and the infantry rush out. Then the MAX's. Then the tanks slowly roll out and finaly the raven walks out of the dropship. He starts running toward the base. Suddenly he fires his jump jets. He sails over the base walls. when he lands, he starts recieving machin gun fire from the infantry and laser fire from the tanks and turrets from the wall. The raven starts fireing his pulse lasers.(Basicly laser machin guns) A man below him disintegrates. He launches a salvo of 5 missiles at a tank. Suddenly, a large caliber munition strikes his leg. He tries to move but finds that he limps. He continues fireing. He steadily gains extensive damage over the course of 2 minutes. Finaly he relizes he can't win. he jumps out of the base. While in midair, he is struck with a large missile in the back. He bails out of the raven. As he is parachuting towards the ground, he sees his mech cruple at the ground and explode. When the pilot lands, he grabs his sidearm and runs toward the nearest mobile base to be refitted for ground combat. As he rushes back towards the battle, he sees other dropships unloading thier cargo. A few more mechs are unloaded along with Companies of Infantry and Max's. Close air support craft are shooting at the enemy tank devisions. Mines and motors are going off everywhere.

When the former mech pilot finds a good place, he lays down and takes out his sniper rifle. For almost an hour he picks off infantry and motor or machin gun nests.

When the battle is over, He hitches a ride on a buggy to the nearest air transport back to his base.

Nekota · 2003-05-10, 03:28 PM

Well that sounds exciting if just one or two guys are running around in Mechs. Problem is... you won't be the only one and try being infantry with giant bots trying not to step on you or for that matter I'd be pissed if a damn mech stepped on my Sunderer killing me and my squad.

Flameseeker · 2003-05-10, 05:20 PM

I like mechs as much as the next guy, but it's not possible. They are waaaaay too overpowered, and they're supposed to be. Not for PS, it wouldn't work.
PPCs, Long Toms, Thunderbolts, they are too advanced. These things have enormous ranges, and could step on INF AND tanks.
I have a mech game, that I seriously doubt anyone else here does, and in it, my 35 tonner destroyed a 100 ton tank WITHOUT damage, and a 70-90 ton heavy hover tank with heavy damage only because that tank was super fast.

PS technology is not nearly advanced enough for mechs. Nuclear fusion reactors? Myomer muscles? Ferro-Fibrous endo-steel armor plating? It's not feasible.

HS Warwolf · 2003-05-11, 12:07 AM

Well if they're going to have to clear all that copyrighted crap if they want to import mechs from Fasa and Microsoft like the Mad Cat or the Atlas. It'd be esier just to make new mechs and put the weapons that are available in planetside onto the mech. Mechs aren't that unrelaistic. Fusion reactors. WE HAVE EM IN THE US for crying out loud! The myomer muscles I can understand would be a little unrealistic. Lasers aren't unrealistic. In 2013 The Marines will be outfitting Hummers with lasers that can shoot down artillery shells. Don't believe me? reseach is Most of the technology on mechs though isn't that far fetched though. The gauss rifle is pretty mus\ch the same thing as the gauss gun except that the munition is a solid slug 200 times bigger.
One thing they should do, is come out with an editor like they have in Morrowind. There's guys coming out with new stuff all the time. A few days ago someone released an airship. Then the staff on ps wouldn't have to spend their precous greenbacks paying guys to come up with additions and charge us for them. They might make a few here and there, but most of em would be made by fans. People can make More wepons or vehicles. Then if the verteran mechwarriors really want them in ps (If they own it) they can make em and maybe release a few if they want to into the game community.