Another blow in the so called war on terror - Page 3

�io · 2002-12-20, 09:44 PM

I'm not gone. I just give up on trying to debate this, no offense to anybody. I admire the passion people like Unreg have for their country, but said passion also makes it hard for them to admit when their country does something not so great.

Like i said i'm sure a lot of them were indeed illegal immigrants but it seems kinda un-american to lock 50 of them into a small room even if they are breaking the law and no matter what you say they were targeting middle eastern and that is pure and simple prejudicism and racism. I have no doubt in my mind that some of those people locked away have indeed been outstanding citizens of the US for many years and now just because they are from some country that is associated with terrorism they got locked up like a common thug.

Anywhoo as i said chalk this one up as a victory for your side, i'd rather debate this issue somewhere else. (again no offense to anybody)

Navaron · 2002-12-20, 10:19 PM

I like people who stand by their views, congrats DIO you earned my respect.

One little thing though, no one here knows the answer to this but: How do we know that all of the people arrested were a) muslim b) of middle eastern ethnicity and c) or how do we know that they are even having criminal charges pressed. Releasing them on bail, means that they could return and fill out proper documentation, but who's to say the INS was just trying to keep track of all it's prspects? If you can't find one, bring them all in.

I have heard nothing about any of those. Some of those guys arrested could be white or black also. It wasn't based on skin or religion, but on where the person hailed from. It is good defense to keep an eye on people who are from countries that openly hate you. Regardless of skin color, we all die the same, so it's best to protect yourself.

�io · 2002-12-20, 10:31 PM

It wasn't based on skin or religion, but on where the person hailed from.

Is there a difference?

Maybe it's just me but racism and prejudice either by race, religion or birth place is still racism and prejudice. I mean what kind of logic is "If he's from the middle east he's a terrorist!" who's to say the next 9/11 (god forbid there be another tragedy like it) won't be caused by terrorists from spain or australia or anywhere else.

MrVicchio · 2002-12-20, 10:44 PM

Dio,

You stick to your guns, I can respect that...

But, there is no actice world wide, well financed group of terrorist that wants to kill americans aside ones from... yep, you guessed it, THE MIDDLE EAST.

�io · 2002-12-20, 10:53 PM

Yeah i'm not saying the middle east isn't a very big problem but to claim that all middle eastern people in the US might be terrorists is a bit extreme. I'm positive most of the middle eastern people in the US are very loyal and loving americans. They know what kind of life is out there waiting for them back "home" and they know the US is a paradise compared to it.

Navaron · 2002-12-20, 10:58 PM

Dio, I know a couple of the countries are in Africa and mostly areas without a strong central government, so the warlords and criminals run rampant.

If we were under attack by Russia, all russian citizens would have to be found and identified and watched. It's a true fact of the cold world we live in. You and I are good people, we want to believe in the best people can bring forth. Unfortunately, some people are so blinded by lies and hatred that they will do anything to hurt their enemies.

Racism is based on a persons skin color or ethnicity. Like I said, it could be white guys or blacks too -> John Walker Lynn and Zacharius Mossouie. The threat is in the mind of these people not their skin.

You could say that we have imposed a policy of Geographical trepidation. If you're from a potentially threatening enviroment, you are just watched a little closer. We aren't executing these guys, we're just checking up on them. They are the ones that broke the rules. If it was racism, we wouldn't even let them in, and we'd expell the current ones.

If a Canadian's visa expires he's SOL just the same, its Geographical trepidation.

MrVicchio · 2002-12-20, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Dio
Yeah i'm not saying the middle east isn't a very big problem but to claim that all middle eastern people in the US might be terrorists is a bit extreme. I'm positive most of the middle eastern people in the US are very loyal and loving americans. They know what kind of life is out there waiting for them back "home" and they know the US is a paradise compared to it.

There are a good number that are NOT in anyway a part of any terrorism...

But, there are quite a few that are. Ever here of the Arab American Counsel? Financed by Arabs in America and has direct ties to Terror..

Very few Arabs speak out openly against Al-quada... When Irish Catholics bombed Irish protestants.. The Catholics across the world denounced them... that is but one example of what I would like to see the arab/muslim community do.. so far they havent.

Navaron · 2002-12-20, 11:10 PM

OOOhhh Vic,

I hate to do this, but I gotta call you on this one. A large portion of the Muslim leaders in the world rebuked the attacks in application, principal, and openly stated it was murder and strictly forbidden. It is a large mistake to make this a religious matter when it is an ideological one. Sorry man.

Nav

Hamma · 2002-12-20, 11:19 PM

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unregistered · 2002-12-20, 11:29 PM

Not all people of Middle Eastern Decent were told they had to come in and be finger printed by the INS, only the ones that were not U.S. citizens. In the Yahoo article it states that 60,000 Irianian Imigrants live in the area and that is just the numbers from one of the 7 countrys that were required to report.

By no means is this racist, or show any prejudice. If it was Racisit, or Prejudice they would have required all people of middle eastern decent including woamn and children reguardless of their U.S. citizenship to come and register.

That my friend would be very, very wrong.

In none of the articles does it even mention the number of people in the U.S. that did show up took care of bussiness and went home. All any of them talk about is how many were detained. I would be willing to bet that less then 1% of the total imigrants that were required to report were detained. It wasn't just in Los Angelos that they were required to reprot to the INS. It was the entire country. What happened in the other places? Were people detained? What precentage of this people were detained?

We can't pass judgement on the entire U.S. Government based on what we have read. The media has told you what to think. It's up to you to figure out weather they have provided enough information to form an educated decision. In this case they have not, and until they do so the benifit of the doubt goes to the Government.

You also have a valid point in saying that no one knows where the next attack make come from, and Richard Ried of France, the Bombings in Bali, The Kidnappings and Murder of U.S. citizens in the Phillipiens, as well as the Beltway Sniper from our very own country illistrate that point.

If anyone beleaves that all people of Middle easter decent are terrorists, or that all Muslums are terrorists their a fool, but by the same token if anyone beleaves that Musums and people of middle eastern decent are all really good guys is eaquely as foolish.

MrVicchio · 2002-12-20, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
OOOhhh Vic,

I hate to do this, but I gotta call you on this one. A large portion of the Muslim leaders in the world rebuked the attacks in application, principal, and openly stated it was murder and strictly forbidden. It is a large mistake to make this a religious matter when it is an ideological one. Sorry man.

Nav

Actually, I follow this, and according to my sources, a mix of Left and right wing sites, yes there was one brief statement made by a number of leaders, then money was tracked from THEIR groups to Al-Quada, some have since been shut down..

diluted · 2002-12-21, 12:02 AM

i havent kept up with this post but i just gotta throw my opinion into it:

and that is, why the fuck is it that on 9/12 they knew every single peice of everything al quada ever did. thats bullshit. they knew who did it, how they did it, where they lived, what they did for a living, all the hijackers, when they did things where they did things. i even saw this thing where they knew exactly where he went at what places the night before 9/11. and yet theres fucking mass murderers everywhere and they dont know anything. argh

Zarparchior · 2002-12-21, 01:19 AM

"What happened to liberty and justice?."

Good question.

MrVicchio · 2002-12-21, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by Zarparchior
Good question.

What happened to people settleing thier differnce through talking and not with 757's full of people into buildings full of people?

Manitou · 2002-12-21, 01:55 AM

Originally posted by Zarparchior
Good question.

Liberty and justice??

Let me remind you that if you were found posting these very views in MOST Arab countries you would be thrown in jail if they were in a good mood, and executed if not.

Liberty and justice as you know and enjoy it are peculiarly American ideals. Ask some of the women in these Arab countries about liberty and justice. They are under the curse of fitna.