News: Matt Higby doing a Q&A at reddit!

[Redshift]

i just hope they don't make it all rock paper scissors which is where it sounds like it's going, i.e meet a max as AI grunt zero chance. meet an AI grunt as an AV grunt zero chance

[Aractain]

Originally Posted by Shogun

i wish they would wipe the new ideas and return to the good old cert and br20 system as it was in ps1 in the good old days. paired with the cap of course!

there were no jackofalltrades back then and it played out fine as long as we had a significant playerbase.
the br was risen because there were not enough players any more and so people had to be able to be selfsufficient for you cannot rely on dedicated medics if there are none.

You can't make claims that PS1 died of indavidual things like self-sufficeint soldiers but you also can't make claims that it "did fine" with them.

All you can really say is that PS1 died before it was even a day old (launch was WAY smaller than they expected).

I can say for sure though I didn't find the design of PS1 as fun as it could be (and you would probably say the opposite and I would eye you suspiciously because only the top dawgs of PS seemed to have fun with the mechanics - which is a terrible design if you want people to keep playing).

[morf]

Besides diminishing the usefulness of support roles, self repair\heal also slows down the game. How much time do people spend ducking behind trees or walls to heal/repair themselves only to fight for 10 seconds and then do it all over again. Stairwell fights become a neverending cycle of people rotating out to the front for 3 seconds, then running back around the corner to heal for 20 seconds. It slows down the game.

Personally i'd like to see it go down more like a 1930's knife fight. 2 gangs meet and its a brawl till the end. Medics and engies can dance around throwing down healing/defensive bots or whatever, commanders give an aoe buff and prioritize targets, grunts mow shit down.

[Crator]

And who's to say the engineers/medic won't be given a utility further up in the cert tree that might do some sort of AoE rep/heal effects. Let's not judge how PS2 will be in regards to this subject until we find out how it will play out.

[Aractain]

Humm I just (like right now) realised something. PS1 had "Bloodscreen, so real".

Since everyone had medical and engy they got hurt, got behind cover and regenrated their health. That is the same system as COD, get hurt, stop being hit for several seconds and regenerate health.

Can't belive I never saw that before lol.

[FIREk]

I hope that having different classes means that they will be a lot more powerful at what they do. AV weaponry was pretty weak in PS1 and it took quite a few people to destroy a tank. Or, rather, to scare it away, as it usually had enough armor to run away.

Now, I'm hoping that, should I choose to play as an AV class, I will be able to destroy a tank with a couple of well-placed shots, much like in BFBC2. AV TTK should be a bit longer than in BFBC2, as vehicles will be more precious (assuming there's a long way to drive from a vehicle terminal-equipped facility to the objective). We definitely shouldn't be firing lock-on rubber AV missiles like in PS1, though.
By "a few well-placed shots" I'm thinking of being in a good position (hidden, with a good view of a tank's rear or sides) and firing 3-4 shots from a skill-based, dumb-fire or limited guidance launcher.

If I forgo heavy armor and powerful anti-personnel weaponry, I should be rewarded with some serious AV potential. It also makes me assume a role, not be one amongst a hundred identical players with MA/HA, AV, ReXO, Med and Engy.

Hordes of non-AV-class players should still be able to scare off a lone tank, looking for easy kills, with massed fire from whatever they have, though.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by morf

Besides diminishing the usefulness of support roles, self repairheal also slows down the game. How much time do people spend ducking behind trees or walls to heal/repair themselves only to fight for 10 seconds and then do it all over again. Stairwell fights become a neverending cycle of people rotating out to the front for 3 seconds, then running back around the corner to heal for 20 seconds. It slows down the game.

Best post ever. It gets so old having people run down the stairs for 5 seconds, pop off a few shots, and run back into where friendlies are firing just to try to heal themselves.

Bags, since you hate ideas that slow down gameplay, then self healing/repping is definitely not for you either.

[GTGD]

I'm a fan of having the ability to self heal/repair. The fact of the matter is, if you need to sacrifice firepower for the ability to heal/repair, there is going to be a severe shortage of support. Not all FPS players are so self-sacrificing for the good of the team. Just look at the zerg, the only reason they even cert it is because it helps them zerg better.

I also don't think it is going to slow down gameplay. They said the TTK is going to be quicker, and if you're in the middle of a fight, you probably won't be able to run and heal until after the shots stop. There won't be this "running up and down a stairway" crap.


Secondly, I would really urge the devs to include vehicle boarding/exiting animations. I know it would cost more and take time, but it is so important on so many levels. How do I tell whether the driver or gunner got out? It can also be abused, especially if it is instant. Taking fire? No problem, use the vehicle as cover and if you get hit just instantly board! +1000 armor. Then after a few shots have been fired and the enemy reloads, jump back out in an instant and kill them.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by GTGD

I'm a fan of having the ability to self heal/repair. The fact of the matter is, if you need to sacrifice firepower for the ability to heal/repair, there is going to be a severe shortage of support. Not all FPS players are so self-sacrificing for the good of the team. Just look at the zerg, the only reason they even cert it is because it helps them zerg better.

This is exactly why I like healing/reparing. I'm a big proponent of complex holstering delays (especially large 5-10 second inventory to holster delays) and holstering choices. If you have like 10 different "pistol" slot devices or weapons it varies people's priorities especially between classes. Medics might have two pistol holsters and bonuses for their medical applicators whereas a non-medic might heal slowly. Same would be true for repairing. Running back and healing/repairing for a non-medic/non-engineer should be a slower operation basically.

If the game only has a few choices for holsters then it becomes more of a problem. Imagine if your MA rifle has a long reload and you have two holsters. Do you want med/eng or a pistol. (This is especially true if the game gets rid of any inventory). If players have a lot of useful choices with advantages/disadvantages it's better without directly removing choices because a class exists. The class medic/engineer have a lot more abilities than healing/repairing.

[Talek Krell]

Originally Posted by GTGD

How do I tell whether the driver or gunner got out?

At this point I'm assuming that you can also insta-switch between seats, so no need to worry!



...Wait...

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Aractain

One man army is hyperbole, an exaguration. "No Important Weaknesses" is what I would say. In PS1 you could bypass or counter everything as the "One Grunt". There were many kinds of grunts, cloaker grunts, greybie grunts, MAX grunts, n00b grunts. One Grunt to beat them all, and in the darkness, rape them in the basement.

They appear to be breaking that up and forcing you to make a choice which is going to be more fun for the majority of the player base.

IMO Hyperbole doesn't have much place in intelligent debates. How is someone supposed to take you seriously - or even know what your stance is - if you keep exaggerating things all the time? IMO it should be largely confined to the realm of political rallies and religious revivals. Hyperbolically speaking, of course...

I have no issue with making us choose between more distinct roles. I fear that they may be segregating things too much, though.

Originally Posted by Redshift

i just hope they don't make it all rock paper scissors which is where it sounds like it's going, i.e meet a max as AI grunt zero chance. meet an AI grunt as an AV grunt zero chance

That is a fear I have as well. I'm hoping that the faster TTK's will help alleviate this somewhat, though. And hopefully this time around AP ammo will actually be useful on a weapon besides HA or the Sweeper...

Originally Posted by Aractain

Humm I just (like right now) realised something. PS1 had "Bloodscreen, so real".

Since everyone had medical and engy they got hurt, got behind cover and regenrated their health. That is the same system as COD, get hurt, stop being hit for several seconds and regenerate health.

Can't belive I never saw that before lol.

Hehe, I didn't catch that either. But now that I've heard that healing/repping will be limited to just the medic and engie class, I think I'd prefer a bloodscreen to what we're getting.

I've started playing COD2 again on occasion, and I find that BSSR certainly keeps the flow of battle moving since you don't have to stop and take cover to regen. You can advance, flank, and even fight while recovering. It certainly keeps things at a high pace.

Originally Posted by GTGD

I'm a fan of having the ability to self heal/repair. The fact of the matter is, if you need to sacrifice firepower for the ability to heal/repair, there is going to be a severe shortage of support. Not all FPS players are so self-sacrificing for the good of the team. Just look at the zerg, the only reason they even cert it is because it helps them zerg better.

I also don't think it is going to slow down gameplay. They said the TTK is going to be quicker, and if you're in the middle of a fight, you probably won't be able to run and heal until after the shots stop. There won't be this "running up and down a stairway" crap.

Agreed. Even with the freeform cert system, when BR20 was the cap support certs were relatively rare and usually took the back seat to combat certs. It's one of the reasons I grabbed Adv Hacking early on, since I kept finding myself in hacked bases with no hackers around to open up the terms...

And I see the lack of self-heal/repair slowing things down for many people as they constantly go back to the nearest term for medkits and armour swaps or hanging back and VNR/VNM'ing until someone gives them a bandaid and some duct tape.

Originally Posted by Sirisian

This is exactly why I like healing/reparing. I'm a big proponent of complex holstering delays (especially large 5-10 second inventory to holster delays) and holstering choices. If you have like 10 different "pistol" slot devices or weapons it varies people's priorities especially between classes. Medics might have two pistol holsters and bonuses for their medical applicators whereas a non-medic might heal slowly. Same would be true for repairing. Running back and healing/repairing for a non-medic/non-engineer should be a slower operation basically.

If the game only has a few choices for holsters then it becomes more of a problem. Imagine if your MA rifle has a long reload and you have two holsters. Do you want med/eng or a pistol. (This is especially true if the game gets rid of any inventory). If players have a lot of useful choices with advantages/disadvantages it's better without directly removing choices because a class exists. The class medic/engineer have a lot more abilities than healing/repairing.

Agreed on all counts. Too bad they seem to be going down the route of removing choices.