Compromise for the driver=gunner issue. - Page 4

Baneblade · 2011-09-28, 09:13 AM

What poll?

FastAndFree · 2011-09-28, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

What poll?

I assumed we were talking about this one

Azren · 2011-09-28, 09:41 AM

this: http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ad.php?t=37352

Baneblade · 2011-09-28, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by FastAndFree

I assumed we were talking about this one

That is a pretty shitty poll. I don't like polls 'cleverly' disguising the real point the poster wants to make... in that case an idea of his own...

Azren · 2011-09-28, 12:29 PM

I have made a more simple poll about it, but it got closed by Hamma

This thing here: http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ad.php?t=37418

moosepoop · 2011-09-28, 12:43 PM

this is gonna be bfrs all over again, except this time its at the launch of the game.

NapalmEnima · 2011-09-28, 01:19 PM

1) The devs have lots of dials they can twist to make a tank with a gunner better than two tanks without. If they want it, they can get it.

2) They may not want it.

Lets ass-u-me for a moment that two MBTs with a driver can take out a single tank with a gunner (AV or not).

Let us also ass-u-me that a pilot who is also the gunner will be all but worthless against A2G (which seems reasonable), and have a tough time if flanked by AV infantry (or infantry with effective cover, also seems reasonable).

Now, if A2G and AV infantry are common enough, those two MTs with no secondaries aren't going to last very long. UNLESS they are working with infantry and some sort of air defense not within their vehicle. Depending on how long the tank timer is, they might have to wait a while to get a new one, reducing the overall number of 1-seater MBT Yahoos running around on their own.

So rather than promoting teamwork within a tank, they may instead want to encourage coordination with folks outside of the tank. A tank with no gunner better roll with infantry or they'll get et up by enemy AV troops. Better have some AA or air cover, or enemy A2G will easily pound that tank to scrap.

So if the MBT Yahoos hop in their tank and charge off and die in fiery glory, then have to spend twice as long waiting for their tank to be available again as the time they spent in combat, they just might figure out a couple things. They either need:
1) A gunner
2) External support

And the "everyone grabs an MBT with no gunner" argument pretty much makes option two impossible. With "everyone" in MBTs, there's no one else to offer that support.

But when "everyone" starts getting slaughtered by A2G, some of those folks are either going to take a path to counter it (AA maxes, AA secondaries, or air superiority craft), or go grab some A2G themselves so they can slaughter the enemy's MBT Yahoos. And as A2G becomes more common, so will various counters for it. And counters for that, and so on.

That sounds remarkably like balanced, team-oriented gameplay. Golly.

Bags · 2011-09-28, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by moosepoop

this is gonna be bfrs all over again, except this time its at the launch of the game.

Uh, the biggest problem with BFRs was the ridiculous power they gave to one person. Due to their shield recharge rates, it took multiple BFRs to kill one BFR.

Unless you think the lightning is problematic, this won't be game devastating.

Traak · 2011-09-28, 01:50 PM

And, with tanks, we won't have those shields that were magically proof of big guns. Stupidity on ritalin.

Hamma · 2011-09-28, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Azren

I have made a more simple poll about it, but it got closed by Hamma

This thing here: http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ad.php?t=37418

We already had polls on the same issue - soon we would have to create a poll to decide which poll is more valid

Raymac · 2011-09-28, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by sylphaen

btw, I also find it unecessary to be so condescending towards people who enjoyed PS1 vehicle style and defend it: it's a matter of taste. To conclude, I'll stay vocal where I feel it's necessary (i.e. to defend what I enjoyed the most in PS1 because I want PS2 to be as enjoyable) and no, I do not enjoy racing games like Gran Turismo (is it truly possible to make a MMO out of that ?

).

PS2 devs will do what they deem best for their success. It does not mean it will be the right formula for everyone either. Time and beta will tell !

You were right to call me out for being condescending. I guess I'm just frustrated by the circles this debate keeps running around and instead of just avoiding it, I get pulled in to reply to one thing or another.

You make alot of extremely well thought out points in your post and it's hard for me to find anything that I'd disagree with. I'd just like to clarify that what I meant by the "vocal minority" was referencing all of us here on the forums, not just the people I disagree with on this particular subject. Out of all of the thousands (and hopefully hundreds of thousands) that will play PS2, we represent only a small fraction of that. Our opinions still matter, and I think we are a great sounding board for the devs, but saying some poll on here has any meaning at all is a bit of a stretch. Even the most professional scientific polls have alot of flaws.

The bottom line though is a point you made very eloquently: when it comes to all this stuff "time and beta will tell."

sylphaen · 2011-09-28, 08:49 PM

@Raymac: Thanks for reading the (full) post ! I write too much. >.< I can understand your frustration but don't fuel it in a negative way, we are all super passionate about this game and that's just what it is.

If it makes you feel any better, I do enjoy reading your posts so don't feel too worried about what I said. In fact, that post was out of your usual tone so I was wondering about it but avoided mentionning it for fear of coming out too strong (lack of contextual expression sometimes make it hard to convey a message correctly by writing)

Playing the devil's advocate, I do think that this is the best way to attack/invalidate that poll we keep mentionning:

Because that poll only has 64 votes, total.

The real question is: given the number of PS1 players left, can that sample represent an accurate picture of the full population ? I betcha !

Enjoy sharing, enjoy posting and always keep smiling because if you played PS1 and still follow the game, you know who you are and that you can't escape from being THAT "special" group of people.

And if I may, even our devs seem kinda special too.

<3 T-Ray's motivation ! Higby is like the new kid on the block but so far, he seems to have some hidden yet witty repartee skills too.

Who will be the best dev by release ?!?! Poll anyone ?

moosepoop · 2011-09-28, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Uh, the biggest problem with BFRs was the ridiculous power they gave to one person. Due to their shield recharge rates, it took multiple BFRs to kill one BFR.

Unless you think the lightning is problematic, this won't be game devastating.

they want to implement a solo one man vehicle that can one hit kill infantry. wake up.

Bags · 2011-09-28, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by moosepoop

they want to implement a solo one man vehicle that can one hit kill infantry. wake up.

the lightning can already pretty much instagib infantry with the AI machine gun. wake up.

Captain B · 2011-09-28, 09:08 PM

Lightning also doesn't have the same armor as a Vanguard, though, and can be brought down or chased off relatively easily. It's the whole of the issue(s), not the sum of their (many) parts.