Higby on Tank Balance

[Rothnang]

This is one proposed set of changes that has me seriously disappointed with the guys at SOE.

The Magrider and the Prowler had pretty similar damage potential before, in fact the Prowler has a bit more. If they are buffing the Prowlers damage by 25% that pretty much means that they looked at the real numbers of how much damage the average player was achieving, and found the Prowler lacking.
I really take issue with boosting the damage until the averages even out though, because it means that now the top grade of Prowler players can dip into potential that is far beyond anything the Magrider can ever achieve, even under the control of their top players.

They should have taken steps to change the gameplay in such a way that the damage people achieve within the Prowlers potential becomes more like that of the Magrider, not just increase the total potential to skew the numbers. Gun stabilization and better vehicle physics might have helped, or splitting the Prowlers weapon into two cannons that reload independently, so you don't have to fire the two shots in rapid succession so you don't lose damage because the first barrel isn't reloading while you're aiming the second shot... Those changes would have been MUCH better.



I think HE rounds need to be nerfed big time. Putting a cobalt on top of your tank should give you way more infantry killing power than rocking HE shells, but vehicle machineguns are weaksauce compared to small arms, while HE cleans house like nobody's business. At the very least HE should be atrocious against armor, like AP is against infantry.

[Chefkoch]

Originally Posted by Hamma

Being able to perch in areas no other tank could get to or even get an angle was probably the worst out of anything mentioned above. That ability was just to powerful in the ground game.

Well it was like this in Planetside 1 somehow..Mags allready sniped people there, not to mention the powerfull magmower back then hehe

[Assist]

Originally Posted by Dkamanus

You mean like, getting into positions where no other tank can get, and get steep angles impossible to the other tanks thanks to the Hover Power? I saw your sniping on TOP of the Broken Arch at an angle that would have dropped ANY other tank. Worst yet, the tanks below needed extra incline in order to be able to shot at you.

Not only that, I've seen magriders climb mountain ranges that are impossible for the other two tanks. He can get into positions no other tanks can. It they could do the same as the magrider, but MUCH more harsly, then I wouldn't say a thing, but in tank combat, position is everything. Vanguard and Prowler drivers must be mindful of their surroundings, even those tiny rocks as well. Now so must the Magrider.

But you still can evade damage much easily then both the prowler and the magrider, while still facing your forward armour with the forward armour buff which almost all magriders get, and be sucessfull. You just won't be able to ignore terrain that much easily compared to before, but it'll still fare better then the other two.

2 nerfs and it is SKY FALLING. One of them slightly. It won't be once single thing that will destroy the tank. Not the magrider at least.

The evade damage statement really makes me cringe. You guys do realize you have similar movement capabilities when it comes to avoiding damage from tanks/rockets? We're the weakest tank, the slowest tank, and now by far the least damaging tank, what is our unique feature? Our maneuverability which has just been shit on. You can turn your tank, and your gun turret, independently of each other. I guess this isn't known ? I guess everyone will continue to completely ignore that fact though, because obviously it's not part of balancing the MBT's.

You specifically mentioned me on top of Broken Arch, which by the way I learned from watching a PROWLER sit up there on my second day of playing PS2 in beta(ty Enclave). You can indeed sit there, just as I was, and can continue to do. You know the real difference between me being up there and you being up there? If you were up there in your Vanguard I could not aim my gun turret high enough vertically to every shoot at you, whereas I regularly am attacked by Vanguard's sitting at Broken Arch. News Flash There's advantages to using terrain height.

The reason the Magrider can climb mountain ranges is due to the Magburner and the strafing power, not the hover height, as I mentioned before in this post and on these forums. The hover height made it possible for the magrider to climb/strafe over dramatic inclines, which in my case usually lead to me flipping over. Your issue is not solved by this nerf, your issue is with the Magburner. I'm sure it will be nerfed soon, considering the amount of horrible players that cry about things that are not broken.

You are right about one thing, the Magrider now faces the same dilemma the other tanks do. Great balancing change. So our unique ability went from being able to hover to being able to strafe. Might as well give all three factions the same tank.

[Mastachief]

Then prowler does not need such an enormous buff WTF are they playing at.

[Assist]

Originally Posted by Hamma

Where did he say he wouldn't nerf that ability btw?

Also, I said it before a bunch of times. The Magrider was a tank that did not have to abide by tank rules and by it's very definition was overpowered vs other tanks. We have all seen the lines of mags perched atop massive hills and hills where nobody could get to them farming infantry and vehicles untouched.

Originally Posted by Higby

Someone asked me what the VS got as an empire advantage, that tweet was an answer to that question - not a declaration of impending nerfs.

IF we change the Magrider it wouldn't be any sort of change to it's maneuverability at all, that's what they're SUPPOSED to do.

We are considering some MBT changes though, including potentially

Removing or reducing magrider front armor since Magriders always have their front facing the things they're fighting, so the front armor bonus scales a bit better for them compared to the other two tanks.

Increasing the muzzle velocity for Vanguard cannons, this would help them be more effective at standoff ranges vs the other tanks, especially the Magrider, and it fits with the NC MO.

Prowlers are only performing very, very slightly below magriders in general right now, so we think they're probably alright, but if anything they might get a minor damage increase to AP and HEAT rounds.

We're still playing with these changes internally, so it's not by any means a done deal.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...5&postcount=28

From my post a week or so ago, "The Impending Magrider Nerf" or whatever it was. Just read what he wrote there, a week ago, compared to the changes he posted that were coming in the patch? Shit doesn't even add up.

[CaptainTenneal]

Yikes, thats a big prowler buff. I mean, I can't wait to enjoy it while it lasts, but I think the fields of infantry corpses will change their minds. It does need this against armor though.

[DHoff]

Originally Posted by Dkamanus

I think they used a tank vs. tank KDR only.

Please re-read what I posted, you completely missed the point.

[moosepoop]

im worried that the increased damage from prowler will have no effect on the magrider (since strafe isnt changed) but will let it dominate the vanguard. the vanguard should get 25% armor buff in return.

[ChipMHazard]

I didn't see that Magrider nerf coming, especially after Higby's previous statement. I guess they view it not as a nerf but as a fix to make sure that Magriders don't go where they are not supposed to?
Time will tell if I'll grow to prefer this change over the proposed front armor nerf.

I guess the Vanguard buffs make sense, as they want it to be the best at long range prolonged engagements. The Prowler buffs seem to be focused on making it the best med. range tank: Better ranged capabilities and a rebalancing of the Vulcan to shift it from close range to longer range engagements.
I didn't agree with just buffing the Prowler's damage and velocity when I first heard about it and I still don't think that's what it really needs. I would rather have them implement stabilizers, a centered turret, an ability that doesn't contradict its focus on speed, individually reloading barrels, better MBT traction instead of just upping the damage output.
It also seems like they REALLY want us to use the lock down more, still doesn't change my feelings about it though.

I do wonder why they are so adamant about not redesigning the Prowler.
Is it because they do not see a problem with the overall design?
Is it because they don't have the time to actually change it radically, thus it's easier to just adjust its stats?
Is it because they are unwilling to accept a possible mistake in their design?

Originally Posted by CaptainTenneal

Yikes, thats a big prowler buff. I mean, I can't wait to enjoy it while it lasts, but I think the fields of infantry corpses will change their minds. It does need this against armor though.

Shouldn't impact the MBT's overall ability to kill infantry as the damage buff only applies to direct hits, not splash damage.

[ringring]

Originally Posted by Rothnang

This is one proposed set of changes that has me seriously disappointed with the guys at SOE.

The Magrider and the Prowler had pretty similar damage potential before, in fact the Prowler has a bit more. If they are buffing the Prowlers damage by 25% that pretty much means that they looked at the real numbers of how much damage the average player was achieving, and found the Prowler lacking.
I really take issue with boosting the damage until the averages even out though, because it means that now the top grade of Prowler players can dip into potential that is far beyond anything the Magrider can ever achieve, even under the control of their top players.

They should have taken steps to change the gameplay in such a way that the damage people achieve within the Prowlers potential becomes more like that of the Magrider, not just increase the total potential to skew the numbers. Gun stabilization and better vehicle physics might have helped, or splitting the Prowlers weapon into two cannons that reload independently, so you don't have to fire the two shots in rapid succession so you don't lose damage because the first barrel isn't reloading while you're aiming the second shot... Those changes would have been MUCH better.



I think HE rounds need to be nerfed big time. Putting a cobalt on top of your tank should give you way more infantry killing power than rocking HE shells, but vehicle machineguns are weaksauce compared to small arms, while HE cleans house like nobody's business. At the very least HE should be atrocious against armor, like AP is against infantry.

Perhaps range comes into it... as a prowler driver my feeling is that magrider had a definite advantage at range but less so close up.

I was quite good at range in ps1 but I haven't got the hang of it in ps2. It's probably the wobbly gun barrel thing the prowler has.

[LoliLoveFart]

Give it two weeks and the cries of "Prowler OP" will ring out from the hills and game update 03 will continue the nerf buff tradition. Maybe it will be the Vanguards turn?

[Hamma]

I'm guessing by maneuverability he didn't mean it's ability to drive over everything, it seems these changes are changing that - not how it actually moves around.

Also the Mag is NOT the slowest tank in the game..

This is an instance of one faction trying to make a case it's not a big picture item like Higby has been talking about and provided actual data about.

[Timithos]

Originally Posted by KaskaMatej

My biggest concern is 25% damage increase of Prowler's HEAT rounds... That really seems absurdly high, with recent HE cannon nerfs I expect most of the TR will take HEAT for more damage to infantry and armour.

This concerns me too. That's not a "tweak" buff.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Hamma

I'm guessing by maneuverability he didn't mean it's ability to drive over everything, it seems these changes are changing that - not how it actually moves around.

Also the Mag is NOT the slowest tank in the game..

This is an instance of one faction trying to make a case it's not a big picture item like Higby has been talking about and provided actual data about.

Aye that would be my guess as well.

Last time I checked its top speed is a tad bit slower than the Vanguard's, thus making it the slowest of the three. I could be wrong if that has changed since last I logged in.

The MBT K/D ratio was certainly interesting.

Originally Posted by Timithos

This concerns me too. That's not a "tweak" buff.

Shouldn't help against infantry, as the splash damage remains the same.

[LoliLoveFart]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Last time I checked its top speed is a tad bit slower than the Vanguard's, thus making it the slowest of the three.

Mag has the slowest top speed magburner not included, Vanguard has the slowest acceleration.